15th August 2001, 06:04
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Salam Alaikum...
Syed Ali Adil Ahasani sent an email to Hadi from islam.org and asked for some information about Shias from him. As a result of this email a dialouge started which is presented in form of this article. FIRST LETTER FROM ALI ADIL ALHASANI TO ISLAM.ORG Salam! I am a Muslim. My Problem is that some of my (Shia) brothers have told me about Shiaism and now I am confused that which sect is right and which sect is wrong.I need to hear a solid Sunni Point of view about Sunniism and some thing about Shiaism. I'll be thankfull for the favour Adil Shah ----------------------------- ISLAM.ORG TO ALI ADIL As-salamu-alaykum Br. Adil, Right now, I will post our generic answer regarding the main differences between the two sects for you. If you have any specific questions you need to ask regarding the matter, we will be more than glad to answer them for you. Linguistically speaking, the term Shia means followers or supporters. In a historical context, it means the supporters of Ali ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, who became the fourth ruler of the Muslim state. When he took over, there was a split between him and other groups of Muslims over the question of dealing with those who mounted the rebellion against his predecessor, Uthman ibn Affan. At this time, there was no such sect as Shia. However, after he was assassinated, his supporters wanted his son, Al Hassan, to take over. They maintained that succession should remain among his descendants. The Shias continued to oppose the Ummayid and Abbasid governments for a very long time. This lead to the provision of a religious backing to the political opposition. Hence, the rise of the Shiite school of thought which institutionalizes the role of the imam. Thus, we have the Jaafari or the Imami school of thought which lists 12 imams whom the Shia venerate. The Zaidi school of thought, which is largely concentrated in Yemen, lists only 7 imams. The question of the role of the imam is the basic issue of difference between Shias and Sunnis. The Term "Sunni" on the other hand, means from linguistic point of view a follower of a method. In an Islamic sense, the term Sunnah means the method shown by the Prophet. Within our context, it refers to the majority of Muslims who gave allegiance to the Muslim state, starting with Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and going through the Umayyids, the Abbasids, etc. They do not recognize the Shiite claim that Ali had a stronger claim to succeed the Prophet as the ruler of the Muslim state. They maintain that anyone has an equal claim provided that he meets the qualifications required for the post. The consensus among all of the Sunni scholars is that the Shiites are a Bidaa group (a group that has introduced innovation to Islam). Beyond this general agreement, the Sunni scholars differ among themselves: i.e., whether the Shiites are considered disbelievers (Kafirs) or not. The majority of the scholars doesn't consider them disbelievers but consider them extremely Fasiq (i.e., transgressors, rebellious, etc), especially for the fact that the Shiites don't respect the companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), they speak badly of them, they damn them, and they deny the legitimacy of the first three rightly guided Caliphs (Abou Bakr, Omar, and Uthman) who were brought to power by the consensus of the companions themselves. The other group of Sunni scholars considers the Shiites as disbelievers (Kafirs) on the basis of many grounds, such as the Shiites' claim that the Imams are infallible (don't commit sins) like the prophets. The Shiites also argue that the Imam has the same duty and authority as the prophets, although he doesn't receive any revelations. They also argue that the Imams are better than all previous prophets (except prophet Muhammad (pbuh)). Hence, Ali bin Abi Taleb (may Allah be please with him) is considered to be better than prophets Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus (peace be upon all of them), which is a position that the Sunni scholars refute. In our day and age, it is more important to stress points of agreement rather than points of disagreement and to try to bring a bridge between the Sunnis and the Shiites without compromising any Islamic values, because what unites Muslims is much greater than what disunites them. With the enemies of Islam trying hard to sow the seeds of discord among us, we should try our best to render their attempts futile. Thank you for asking and Allah knows best. IslamiCity's Visitors Information Center. sk/no -------------------------- ALI ADIL TO ISLAM.ORG Dear Hadi! Assalam Alaikum! I thank you for the mail you have sent to me. It is so nice of you to express your views about Shias and the objections about Shias. You have said that I can ask what I want. First I'd like to talk in context of your mail and then I'll put some other questions. You say in your email that "Linguistically speaking the term Shia means followers or supporters. In a historical context it means the supporters of Ali Bin Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, who became the fourth ruler of the Muslim state". Here, my question to you is, Q-1 "If you were living at that time, wouldn’t you be the supporter of the fourth ruler of the Muslims state?". And If you would, ain’t you a Shia? Then you say "there was a split between him and other groups of Muslims over the question of dealing with those who mounted the rebellion against his predecessor, Uthman ibn Affan", Here I would like to ask that, Q-2 "If there were two groups at that time, then who was right and who was wrong? If SHIA means the followers of Ali Bin Abu Talib, then were the followers of Ali Bin Abu Talib wrong, would you say that???". Then you say "at this time there was no such sect as Shia". Q-3 What are you trying to do? Do you think that everyone except you is fool? You, yourself have said in the previous line of your mail that there was a split among Muslims and there were followers of Ali and there were his opponents. Weren’t his followers Shia? And if you mean to say that FIQHA-e-JAFRIA did not exist at that time then I'll ask that "did Hanafis, Malikis, Hanbalis and Sahfiis exist at that time?? You say that after his assassination his followers wanted his son Al-Hasan to be the Caliph. You have not mentioned that why did they wanted him to be Caliph? May be you'd say that they believed in the kinship of Prophet! I'll say that you are wrong, they believe that due to the kinship they are more able than any one else. They are more knowledgeable than any one else. Q-4 Wasn't he better than his competitors. Who among his competitors was better than him? Then you say "The Shias continued to oppose the Ummayad and Abbasside governments for a very long time". Q-5 Why did Shias opposed Ummayads and Abassides?? Can you give one name of any ummayad or Abbaside ruler who was just and who was kind to Ahl-e-Bait (except Umer Bin Abdul Aziz)? instead I can give the list of the crimes committed by Ummayads and Abbasides. I know why you are defending them, you are defending them just because you want to defend your law of being Caliph That is, "any one who is a Muslim and offers prayers can become a Caliph". And I am very very sorry to say that in order to defend yourself and attack Shias you have ignored (deliberately) the Incident of Karbala in your email. It is likely that you'll say that God forbid Imam Hussain was a rebel and Yazeed was a just ruler.""BECAUSE HE MEETS THE QULIFATIONS FOR THE POST"". Q-6 Why didn't you mention the Incident of Karbala???I'd like you to answer this question Especially. You have mentioned about the foundation of Jafri School of Thought but you haven’t mentioned about the foundations of four School of thoughts from Ahl-e-Sunnah. Here I would like to admit some thing. I was a Sunni. A year ago I started researching that which of the two sects is the right one. I have heard and studied both point of views. The reason I mailed you was that I wanted to know a solid Sunni Point of view. I wanted to know that how justly you present and compare Shiaism with Sunniism. You say that Shia backed their political opposition religiously. Q-7 Was that Political Opposition Wrong ? Were the Politicians of Banu-Ummaya Just? Let me tell you my brother that, for Shias there is no separate thing as Politics, Islam is a complete code of life and the opposition you are talking about was not political but religious. You say that the difference between Sunni and Shia is the role of Imam. I’ll tell you what is the difference. The difference is that Shias seek a very authentic and most reliable source to the Sunnah of Prophet and that is Hazrat Ali. Actually the followers of Hazrat Ali are the Followers of Prophet. Ali has spent atleast 33 years in Prophet’s guardian Ship. Also he is from Ahl-e-Bait who are one of the two things Prophet has left for our guidance, would you disagree?? You have said that Sunni Scholars declare that Shias are Fasiq (i.e., transgressors, rebellious, etc), especially for the fact that the Shiites don't respect the companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), they speak badly of them, they damn them. I ask you what is the Definition of COMPANION?? I think that you don’t know the definition of COMPANION. Let me tell you. A companion is a person who remains a companion of the Prophet after Prophets death and dies in the same state. We see a lot of companions who turned away after the death of Prophet. Same was the case with Abu-Bakar, Umar and Usman. Had you read history my brother you wouldn’t have said That these people remained the true companions of Prophet. In fact they turned away during his life. Do you Want me to quote the examples of Battle of UHUD, HUNAIN, HUDABYA?, The Hadith of Qartas when the Prophet asked for the pen and paper and was turned down by Umar saying that Prophet is not in his senses?? Or the disobedience regarding the Army of Usama bin Zaid???? Give me one single account of bravery of UMAR from YOUR OWN BOOKS? I can give more than one incidents reported in history when these people turned away. Ask me if you dare and I’ll provide them to you. What were they doing when the funeral of Prophet was still waiting to be buried. You’ll say that they were saving the nation from going astray!! I’ll ask couldn’t they calm down the people at SAQIFA and tell them that the body Of Prophet is waiting for burial and we should decide this matter after that. Can you say that they said any thing like this, instead they started advocating the right of caliphate for QURAISH DUE TO THE NEARNESS TO THE PROPHET, where goes the equal right to the caliphate??? And how dare you say that Abu-Bakar was chosen by the consensus of the companions???? Give me the names of the companions who were present at Saqifa when Abu-Bakar was chosen. It was only Umar and Abu-Ubaida who chose and then forced others to pay allegiance. If you say that there were Ansar present there and they also chose Abu-Bakar?? Then my brother I’ll say that the people from Ansar present at SAQIFA according to your Ullama were those who were selfish and mean that they didn’t even waited for the burial and AbuBakar had to go and handle the situation. How can you say that the prophet wanted Abu-Bakr to be Caliph?? Had he wished so he wouldn’t had sent Abu-Bakar , so called WANTED CALIPH, with Usamah’s Army. Prophet knew that he was going to die then God forbid, didn’t he know that the caliph will be needed soon and Abu-Bakar should stay in Medina. And I hope you know what happened when Aisha asked prophet to let Umar lead the prayers and the Prophets said "GOD and Muslims would not """"LIKE""""" it". Was Umer made Caliph by the consensus??? NO my brother he was nominated by Abu-Bakar. Was Usman Legitimate, was he made caliph by Consensus?? No the decision was left to Abdurehman bin Auf.How do you call your selves Followers of the Sunnah of the Prophet when you follow Umar Abu Bakar and Usman.What did Umer do after Prophet? He changed the Sunnah. The famous sermon of Umer which you people mention Regarding the annulment of Muta starts with these words : "Two things were Practiced during Prophet’s time………" What do you say about that???? You say that Shias Damn Abu Bakar, Umer and Usman. If a person who Damns the Companions is Kafir and Fasiq then Muavyah Bin AbuSufian is the greatest Fasiq who ordered to damn Ali on the Pulpits. You say that Shias consider the Imam’s place higher than Moses, Jesus and Abraham. All of The Sunni and Shia Ullama Agree on the Hadith of Prophet that " there will be a Mehdi from my Descendents and Jesus will pray behind him". What does this Hadith Prove? You say that we should talk of points of Agreement between Shias and Sunnis. How is it possible when you declare Them Fasiq and Kafir. Never have you people talked of Logic. I challenge you to prove any of your allegations against Shias in an open one-to-one Discussion. All you know about Shias is from your Books and your Ullama's. I don’t think that you have read any Shia Books and Shia Philosophy. Read books of Shias and analyze them, staying neutral. A couple of last Question by the way. Why haven’t the Sunni Ullama given ruling to kill Suleman Rushdi?? Why Shias have given the ruling to kill Suleman Rushdi? I hope you’d answer me individually and also you’d place my letter on your website. If you’ll not do so then it’ll be a prove of you being wrong. I repeat, I only want the answers to my questions nothing else. Syed Ali Adil Alhasani. Karachi. ------------------------ FINAL ANSWER FROM ISLAM.ORG TO ALI ADIL As-salamu-alaykum Br. Adil, Allah says in the Quran- And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; **it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims,** both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help! And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided. It is apparent for the above quoted verses that Allah and His prophet don't recognize any sects/division between us. WE are all Muslims- this is the name given to us by Prophet Abraham. By promoting division among the Muslims, the only winners are our enemies. We hope you understand what we are trying to say. Thank you for asking and **Allah knows best**. IslamiCity's Visitors Information Center. sk/ka/pu ------------------------------------------------------------ Thus a clear defeat of Sunnis on the topic of Islamic History wasslanm jibbi
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The reason for the hunger of the poor is the extravegance of the rich 
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15th August 2001, 11:19
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Salaam bro
Intesting post. But remember that we are not having a shia vs sunni competition (although dawacentre and KI keep trying to start one). Some of the posts on this site in the past between these sects have been like the supporters of two football teams cussing each other (certain people in particular)! In the end, the only way it is possible to unite is on truth, i.e. the rope of Allah (SWT).
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15th August 2001, 11:42
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For once my twin bro Mo speaks wisely
 Seriously i agree with what Mo is saying  Should there be any divisions among muslims when Islam was revealed in a single way of life?? We are blessed with having the original book the quran and the complete record of the prophet (pbuh) life. We can check whether something is Islamic or not. If it doesnt come from the Quran or hadith then it isn't Islam. we can seek to learn and practice the truth ad Allah guides them who seek Him. The funny thing is when two brothers or sisters argue over something what they believe is right they are possibly both right. They just dont know how to handle their difference of opinions. The prophet (pbuh) one said '"Differences in my Ummah are a blessing" Meaning its good for muslim brothers and sisters to reason and disguss things and not to argue. If there was anything they disagreed it was all in pursuit of knowledge! If we disagree, we must respect each others opnion and present our evidence but still if we cant agree on one thing we must be courteous and respectful. If we find that we are in the wrong dont be stubborn and stick to it but rather say Alhamdulillah and thank the other muslim for helping you to understand Allah's words better.
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15th August 2001, 12:25
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Quote:
 Quote:
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. The Qur'an can also be people who wish to seek discord by using the verses that are allegorical (figurative /ambiguous). Only Allah (SWT) and those firmly grounded in knowledge will understand these verses. Most of the discussion between shias and sunnis is about where we should obtain the sunnah from and this is VERY important and needs to be discussed. In order to know who we can trust we need to have a good understanding of Islamic history - that was my point in another thread. However, I don't agree with the "I am from this sect and I am right - you are outside of Islam..." approach that some people on this site have adopted. We all should discuss with each other (and if necessary agree to disagree) so that on the day of judgement we will be able to JUSTIFY our position. Quote:
When prophet Muhammad (SAW) came he did not say that the differences between the christans, jews (people of the book) and the truth were a blessing. These people where told that they were misguided and many were brought back to the one universal truth - Islam. If one person says that eating bacon is halal and other says it is haram - can they both be right? No. The same can be said that if two people are fighting each other then one person has to be in the wrong. Quote:
I already have above.Quote:
 [Edited by muhammad on 15th August 2001 at 18:42]
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15th August 2001, 15:11
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Salam Alaikum...
<<The prophet (pbuh) one said '"Differences in my Ummah are a blessing">> This is one of the fabricated hadiths which were made in the reign of Banu ummaya specially Muawiya! It is illogical!!! Because religion is one and so there should be or it is better to say, must be one opinion..!! "Differences in mu Ummah is a fitna"..it suites more! Wasslam
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The reason for the hunger of the poor is the extravegance of the rich
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