Want to get replies from Abdur_Rahman , Nur, Avilos

[mhnew]

May Allah guide us all.

And I pray that he gives us the ability to be patient.
Br. Star, may Allah give you more patience and the ability forgive the person in question.

[abc_xyz]

Originally posted by mhnew
May Allah guide us all.

And I pray that he gives us the ability to be patient.
Br. Star, may Allah give you more patience and the ability forgive the person in question.

Yes the person in quesiotn is an evil and cruel person wiht no heart.

[abc_xyz]

Originally posted by Nur


I want to know why Harat Ali was always nice to all other 3 (out of 4) Khalfah-e-Rashideen who Shia does not believe (and abuse them in their books).

I want to know the following:

1) Why according to Sahih Bukhari, Ali did not give allegiance to Abu Bakr for 6 months.

2) Why Abu Bakr took by force land off the sinless daughter of the Holy Prophet (saw), Fatima, which the Holy Prophet (saw) had given to her as a gift (this is also according to bukhari).

3) Why was Fatima so angry at this that she did not talk to Abu Bakr ever again or at least until she was dying (according to another account in bukhari)?

3) Why is it that the same land was given back to Ali once he decided to give allegiance.

4) Why is it that Ali under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthmnan had no government position?

5) Why is it that Belal refused to perform Adhan again after the death of the Holy Prophet (saw)?

6) Why is it that when the Holy Prophet (saw) and his followers were forced out of Macca and had to live for 3 years in the wilderness, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were not with the other muslims, but were in Macca?

7) Why does Ali mention clearly in his speeches that the muslims are required to follow him and that he was the successor to the Holy Prophet (saw)? Why is it that the first 3 Caliphs do not make the same claim?

8) Why was Ali not consulted when Abu Bakr was elected as Caliph?


I want to know why Hazrat Ali did not go on war against first 3 Khalifa, if those all 3 are doing something against Muhammad (PBUH) advice and will?

Probably for the same that the Holy Prophet (saw) did not go on war against the same companions when they openly disobeyed him (saw) on several occasions.

Also, did the Holy Prophet (saw) respond to all those who did wrong by declaring war on them?

If I believe that what Shia are saying is truth that All first 3 Khalifahs had done Khalifa against Muhammad (PBUH) will then it means they are telling me that Hazrat Ali had done sin by NOT protesting or going war against them ?? No Ali had not done any sin and neither first 3 Khalifa was wrong . That is Shia who are wrong...


Your reasoning is unislamic brother Faisal, because you are saying that the shias are wrong because the implication of them being right is that the first caliphs committed wrong doings. How is that a valid argument? Are you saying that it was impossible for the first 3 caliphs to do wrong? Why did Fatima, the daughter of the Holy Prophet (saw) refuse to talk to Abu Bakr then? Why did Ali refuse to give allegiance to Abu Bakr? (Both of these facts are menioned in sahih bukhar!) You have to look into what happened and what the first 3 caliphs did and then decide whether they did right or wrong? Are the companions excluded from Allah’s laws? Are they above the laws of Islam?

As Ali said “judge personalities by looking at the truth and not the truth by looking at personalities”

Perhaps you should actually study the history written by scholars accepted by the sunni ulema and you will see that Ali did protest by, for eg, not giving allegiance to Abu Bakr for 6 months. You will find in the sunni books, including in books such as sahih bukhari that there was conflict between Ali and the other companions. The fact that Ayesha fought Ali should be more than enough evidence that there was conflict between Ali and other companions.

Do you accept, brother Faisal, that Ayesha was wrong in fighting Ali? Do you accept that the first 3 caliphs were not sinless and that they could commit sin or are you of the opinion that they are sinless and incapable of committing a sin?

Also do you reject all sunni historical accounts which show that Ali was either not consulted and/or he did not approve of Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman as being selected as Caliphs?

Brother Faisal, you said yourself that you have very limited knowledge but you write so confidently that the shias are wrong. Please, brother Faisal, just read the historical accounts written by the sunni scholars, such as that by Al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir, ibn Hisham, etc and read he hadiths books too and then if your heart is open you will find some truths that you are perhaps not aware of now.

I want to know why there are marriages between Hazrat Ali next generations and other 3 Khalifa generations who shia abuse.

Firstly, the sin that is committed by a person is not automatically passed on to their children, so if a companion did wrong against Ali it does not mean that Ali cannot marry the daughter of this companion or have any relationship with any family members of this companion.

In fact, brother Faisal, Ali married the wife of Abu Bakr after he died and brought up his son, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr was a follower of Ali and he fought on the side of Ali against Ayesha. He was later killed by Muwawiyah.

Is it not true that many of the early muslims had relatives that were idolaters? Did that mean that they were not good muslims and that other muslims could not marry them?

Secondly, Prophet Nuh was married to someone who did not actually believe and who perished with other disbelievers, so it is possible that pious muslims can end up marrying someone who is bad.

Thirdly, Imam Ali in one of his letters to Muwawiyah points out that despite the high status of the family of the Holy Prophet (saw) and despite the low status of the umayyads, the family of the Holy Prophet (saw) still mixed with the umayyads and even married their womenfolk.

It was the umayyads who opposed the Holy Prophet (saw) and Islam from the beginning, yet the Holy Prophet (saw) and the ahl-ul-bayt did not prevent umayyads from marrying into the Prophet (saw)’s family. For eg, the wife of Imam Hasan (the older grandson of the Holy Prophet (saw) was related to Muwawiyah (a seriously wrongly guided caliph and an umayyad!) and poisoned Hasan to death.

If in Quran Allah says that ..I am happy with Sahabah as a generation..(that is not exact wording) then who Shia make most of Sahabah as Murtid.

Where does it say that?

Saying that a companion committed sins or did wrong is not calling them murtad. And brother Faisla, what do you think that Allah means when He says in the Quran that after the Holy Prophet (saw) passes away many of the muslims will go back to their old ways?

In the Quran only love and praise for the family of the Prophet (saw) is unconditional, while love and praise for sahabas depend on their actions. This is why, the Quran speaks highly of the companions when they do good but condemns them when they do wrong.

For eg, when the Quran says that “your friend (the Holy Prophet (saw) is not mad…”, who is it addressed to? Who was the Holy Prophet (saw) “friends” with? This verse refers to companions (ie friends of the Holy Prophet (saw) who accused him (saw) of being mad!

In one of the surahs in part 28 of the Qur’an, Ayesha and Hafsa, wives of the Holy Prophet (saw), are condemned for always opposing the Holy Prophet (saw).

The family of he Holy Prophet (saw), on the other hand are never condemned in the Qur’an and in fact there is a Quranic verse which makes it obligatory for us to love the family of the Holy Prophet (saw). The fact that our salat is not valid if we do not pray for the family of the Holy Prophet (saw) should tell us all something about the status of the family of the ahl-ul-bayt (the family of the Holy Prophet (saw)).

And there are few Ayats in Quran about Hazrat Ayesha innocience and Shia abuse her and do not accept her hadiths.
How can Quran praise a women which shia abuse..
Either I have to reject Shahaba OR the Sahaba generation who is narrated very good in Quran or I have to reject Shia and I rejects Shias.

Do you then reject the Quranic verses which condemn Ayesha? The verse which defends Ayesha is about a specific incident and does not give her a licence to commit sins that are forbidden for all other muslims. Do you reject those Quranic verses that condemn the sahabas for disobeying and doubting the Holy Prophet (saw)? Do you reject the sahaba, Ali, by siding with Ayesha who declared a war against Ali during his Caliphate , which resulted in thousands of muslims being killed?

Tell me do you accept that Ayesha did wrong In fighting Ali, a rightly guided Caliph, or do you believe that Ali was wrong? If Ayesha made a “mistake” in fighting Ali, could she not also make a mistake in reporting hadiths? Do you reject the teachings of Ali in favour of the teachings of Ayesha, despite al lthe hadiths about Ali’s knowledge?

Do you choose the sahabas over Allah and the Holy Prophet (saw) and the ahl-ul-bayt who were purified by Allah?

Do you reject the sunni belief that the family of the Prophet (saw) were the fountainhead of knowledge an fiqh?




See I control myself long time so either you (announced) Shia and unnounced Shia stop spreading Shiaism or I might not be able to kept myself away from this Shiaisum ... as you are misguiding people.

For someone who has “very limited knowledge” you write very confidently about your views. Fear Allah and do not allow your ignorance and love for people other than the Holy Prophet (saw) to influence your beliefs.

Are you a sunni? If you are then I suggest you read the writings and verdicts of the sunni scholars. Either accept what is written in the sunni books regarding the sahabas and the family of the Holy Prophet (saw) or prove that it is all false.

And brother Faisal, I don’t care whether you or anyone else regards me as a shia or a sunni – I am not here to please you or anyone else on this site. I have certain beliefs and I back up my beliefs with sources accepted by the sunni ulema. On what do you base your views? Based on the teachings of which sunni scholar do you preach that the sahabas committed no wrong and that they are equal if not better than the ahl-ul-bayt?

I hate it when muslims claim to be sunnis and yet do not know anything about sunnism and do not talk to sunni ulema and do not read the books accepted by the sunni ulema. For those brothers who are in the uk and who believe that only the shis follow the ahl-ul-bayt, I suggest you come down to Manchester and pay a visit to all the sunni mosques and then ask them about the ahl-ul-bayt.


[Edited by Nur on 12th June 2001 at 07:28]

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I was asked to say something regarding this. I have very limited knowledge as well, as far as islam and goes and I really cant make comment. But I will say form the best of what I know. When br nur has said these first I thought he has brain damage or something. But then when I went into searching on what he said it was there on our shaih book namely muslim and bukari. That is clever of br nur that he didn’t give straight references or quoted the exact haddith/verse so that sincere truth seeker can so their own search or ponder abt it, if someone truly want to know they will try to find out by themselves wiht their own effort and clear intention of gaining knowledge and worshping Allah (swt) for the sake of HIm alone... Which is fair enough I guess. That again shows his wisdom and intellect

Br faisla if I were u I would have printed what he posted and read though it.
Just to get ur research going I will give some useful tools form the web.
1)There is a website where one can do their own search of finding haddith form bukari and Muslim by typing key words
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

2) for quran search
http://www.islam.org/Mosque/quran.htm

3) the collection of whole haddith

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/
4) the collection of The quran, translation by yusuf, picktall etc as well as explaniton etc

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/quran/

[abc_xyz]

[originally posted by nur

1) Why according to Sahih Bukhari, Ali did not give allegiance to Abu Bakr for 6 months.

2) Why Abu Bakr took by force land off the sinless daughter of the Holy Prophet (saw), Fatima, which the Holy Prophet (saw) had given to her as a gift (this is also according to bukhari).

3) Why was Fatima so angry at this that she did not talk to Abu Bakr ever again or at least until she was dying (according to another account in bukhari)?

3) Why is it that the same land was given back to Ali once he decided to give allegiance.

I will quote one haddiht from sahi Mulsim (there is numerous similar version avaible in bukari too) which summarise this whole thing. Its from haddith database
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen....html#019.4352

Book 019, Number 4352:
It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-filth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." The household of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) will live on the income from these properties, but, by Allah, I will not change the charity of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from the condition in which it was in his own time. I will do the same with it as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upun him) himself used to do. So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life.

She lived for six months after the death of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). When she died, her husband. 'Ali b. Abu Talib, buried her at night. He did not inform Abu Bakr about her death and offered the funeral prayer over her himself.

During the lifetime of Fatima, 'All received (special) regard from the people. After she had died, he felt estrangement in the faces of the people towards him. So he sought to make peace with Abu Bakr and offer his allegiance to him. He had not yet owed allegiance to him as Caliph during these months. He sent a person to Abu Bakr requesting him to visit him unaccompanied by anyone (disapproving the presence of Umar). 'Umar said to Abu Bakr: BY Allah, you will not visit them alone. Abu Bakr said: What will they do to me? By Allah, I will visit them. And he did pay them a visit alone. 'All recited Tashahhud (as it is done in the beginning of a religious sermon) ; then said: We recognise your moral excellence and what Allah has bestowed upon you. We do not envy the favour (i. e. the Catiphate) which Allah nas conferred upon you; but you have done it (assumed the position of Caliph) alone (without consulting us), and we thought we had a right (to be consulted) on account of our kinship with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He continued to talk to Abu Bakr (in this vein) until the latter's eyes welled up with tears. Then Abd Bakr spoke and said: By Allah, in Whose Hand is my life, the kinship of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) is dearer to me than the kinship of my own people. As regards the dispute that has arisen between you and me about these properties, I have not deviated from the right course and I have not given up doing about them what the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to do. So 'Ali said to Abu Bakr: This aftetnoon is (fixed) for (swearing) allegiance (to you). So when Abu Bakr had finished his Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and recited Tashahhud, and described the status of 'Ali, his delay in swearing allegiance and the excuse which lie had offered to him (for this delay). (After this) he asked for God's forgiveness. Then 'Ali b. Abu Talib recited the Tashahhud. extolled the merits of Abu Bakr and (said that) his action was nott prompted by any jealousy of Abu Bakr on his part or his refusal to accept the high position which Allah had conferred upon him, (adding: ) But we were of the opinion that we should have a share in the government, but the matter had been decided without taking us into confidence, and this displeased us. (Hence the delay in offering allegiance. The Muslims were pleased with this (explanation) and they said: You have done the right thing. The Muslims were (again) favourably inclined to 'Ali since he adopted the proper course of action.

In one of the surahs in part 28 of the Qur’an, Ayesha and Hafsa, wives of the Holy Prophet (saw), are condemned for always opposing the Holy Prophet (saw).

Its actually sura 66, called banning, and I think the explanation by picktall explains it well (page 345). I could not find it online so If somebody really wants it I can type it here.
but also i htink it may be good idea to loook into other tafseer too, i.e maudidy etc

[Avilos]

Sis abc_xyz,

Assalamo Alaikum.

Mashallah Sis!

Welcome to the world of shia's now that your taqqiya has been revealed... You devil who dares to read and not be read to! You Rafidih!

hehehehe

On a more serious note, well done sis for conducting your own research into matters and taking time to find out and search from the resources.

May Allah (SWT) inspire every muslim brother and sister to do the same.

[abc_xyz]

abt the companion of prophet (pbuh)

Surely if prophet can makes 'mistakes' then how cna we consider the compalion to be infallable? i belive in qurna and haddith complaion were praised when they done good adn when they made mistakes thery were condemned.

this is partial of the Chapter Introductions to the Qur'an
By Syed Abu-Ala' Maududi.......

Likewise, the Companions or the holy wives of the Prophet, were human, not angels or supermen. They could commit mistakes. Whatever ranks they achieved became possible only because the guidance given by Allah and the training imparted by Allah's Messenger had molded them into the finest models. Whatever esteem and reverence they deserve is on this very basis and not on the presumption that they were infallible.

For this reason, whenever in the sacred lifetime of the Prophet (upon him be peace) the Companions or holy wives happened to commit an error due to human weakness, they were checked. Some of their errors were corrected by the Holy Prophet, as has been mentioned at many places in the Hadith; some other errors were mentioned in the Quran and Allah Himself corrected them so that the Muslims might not form any exaggerated notion of the respect and reverence of their elders and great men, which might raise them from humanity to the position of gods and goddesses.

If one studies the Quran carefully, one will see instances of this one after the other.In Surah Al-Imran, in connection with the Battle of Uhud, the Companions have been addressed and told:

"Allah did fulfill His promise (of help) to you: in the initial stage of the battle, it was you who were killing them by Allah's leave until you lost heart and disputed about your duty and disobeyed your leader, when Allah showed you what (the spoils) you coveted for there were among you some who hankered after the life of this world, and others who cherished the life after death. Then Allah caused your retreat before the disbelievers in order to test you, but the fact is that even then Allah pardoned you, for Allah is very gracious to the believers." (v. 152).


In surah Al-Ahzab, the holy wives have been addressed thus: "O Prophet, say to your wives: If you seek the world and its adornments, come, I shall give you of these and send you off in a good way. But if you seek Allah and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter, you should rest assured that Allah has prepared a great reward for those of you, who do good." (vv. 28-29).

In Surah Jumu'ah about the Companions it was said: "And when they saw some merchandise and amusement they broke off to it and left you (O Prophet) standing (in the course of the Sermon). Say to them : that which is with Allah is far better than amusement and merchandise, and Allah is the best of all providers." (v. 11).


In Surah Al-Mumtahinah, Hadrat Hatib bin Abi Balta'ah, a Companion who had fought at Badr, was severely taken to task because he had sent secret information to the disbelieving Quraish about the Holy Prophet's invasion before the conquest of Makkah.

All these instances are found in the Quran itself, in the same Quran in which Allah Himself has paid tribute to the Companions and the holy wives for their great merits, and granted them the certificate of His good pleasure, saying: "Allah became well pleased with them and they with Allah." [9:100]

(from http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/q...dudi/i066.htm)




[Edited by abc_xyz on 15th June 2001 at 20:54]

[abc_xyz]

and in haddith the virtue of companion
there are lots on shaih bukari and muslim whihc can be bborwese thoguth online to (ppl can c now htat i am net freak)
its from http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/h...ukhari/057.htm

i ma jsut quoting some of those......

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 3:
Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "The best people are those living in my generation, and then those who will follow them, and then those who will follow the latter. Then there will come some people who will bear witness before taking oaths, and take oaths before bearing witness." (Ibrahim, a sub-narrator said, "They used to beat us for witnesses and covenants when we were still children.")

[br fiasl meitoned previosuly was not sure if it was form qurna or haddith, and its form haddith]


similar verson form another source

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 2:
Narrated Imran bin Husain:

"Allah's Apostle said, 'The best of my followers are those living in my generation (i.e. my contemporaries). and then those who will follow the latter" 'Imran added, "I do not remember whether he mentioned two or three generations after his generation, then the Prophet added, 'There will come after you, people who will bear witness without being asked to do so, and will be treacherous and untrustworthy, and they will vow and never fulfill their vows, and fatness will appear among them."

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 7:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

We used to compare the people as to who was better during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle . We used to regard Abu Bakr as the best, then 'Umar, and then 'Uthman .

[someone i know of once meitoned that this is kinda of counsidence that after the deaht of porphet (pbuh) it happens to be the order of khalifa has gone in htis order]

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20:
Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:

I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 22:
Narrated Abu Said:

The Prophet said, "Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's Cause) it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them."

There is a lot more on that site to read.