Want to get replies from Abdur_Rahman , Nur, Avilos

[Avilos]

THIRD PROOF

Also in the final sermon of the prophet(SAW) the prophet (SAW) announced:

"Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God."

Then Prophet (SAW) held up the hand of Ali and said:

"Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

Some of the Sunni references:
(1) Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63
(2) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43
(3) Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 4,21
(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371
(5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330, v4, pp 281,368,370,
372,378, v5, pp 35,347,358,361,366,419 (from 40 chains of narrators)
(6) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, pp 563,572
(7) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p103 (from several transmitters)
(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(9) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19
(10) Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, pp 169,173
(11) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213, v5, p208
(12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn Athir, v4, p114
(13) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, pp 307-308
(14) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part 3, p144
(15) Sawaiq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, p26
(16) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509; v1, part1, p319, v2, part1, p57, v3, part1, p29, v4, part 1, pp 14,16,143
(17) Tabarani, who narrated from companions such as Ibn Umar, Malik Ibn al-Hawirath, Habashi Ibn Junadah, Jari, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ibn Abbas, Amarah,Buraydah,...
(18) Tarikh, by al-Khatib Baghdadi, v8, p290
(19) Hilyatul Awliya', by al-Hafiz Abu Nu'aym, v4, p23, v5, pp26-27
(20) al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, Chapter of word "ayn" (Ali), v2, p462
(21) Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, pp 154,397
(22) al-Mirqat, v5, p568
(23) al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p172
(24) Dhaka'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p68
(25) Faydh al-Qadir, by al-Manawi, v6, p217
(26) Yanabi' al-Mawaddah, by al-Qudoozi al-Hanafi, p297
... And HUNDREDS more.

Immediately after the Prophet (PBUH&HF) finished his speech, the following verse of Holy Quran was revealed:

"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)

Some of Sunni references which mentioned the revelation of the above verse of Quran in Ghadir Khum after the speech of the Prophet:

(1) al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19 (2) Tarikh, by Khatib al-Baghdadi, v8, pp 290,596 from Abu Hurayra (3) Manaqaib, by Ibn Maghazali, p19 (4) History of Damascus, Ibn Asakir, v2, p75 (5) al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p13 (6) Manaqib, by Khawarazmi al-Hanfi, p80 (7) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213 (8) Yanabi' al-Mawaddah, by al-Qudoozi al-Hanafi, p115 (9) Nuzul al-Quran, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu'aym narrated on the authority Abu Sa'id Khudri.... and more.

[Avilos]

FOURTH PROOF

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to Ali (AS) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him the oath were Umar, Abu Bakr, and Uthman. It is narrated that Umar and Abu Bakr said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all believing men and women."

Sunni references:
(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p281 (2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50 (3) Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khatib al-Tabrizi, p557 (4) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part3, p144 (5) Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al Tabari (6) al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah (7) al-Musnad, by Abu Ya'ala (8) Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn `Uqdah (9) Tarikh, by Khatib al-Baghdadi, v8, pp 290,596 from Abu Hurayra... and more.

[Avilos]

FIFTH PROOF

Imam Ali (AS), in person, reminded others who witnessed the event of Ghadir and the tradition of the Messenger of Allah; these are some of the events:

- On the day of Shura (Election Day for Uthman)
- During the days of Uthman's rule
- The Day of Rahbah (year 35) where 24 companions stood up and swore that they attended and heard the tradition of the Prophet (PBUH) first hand, twelve of whom were the warriors of Badr.
- The Day of Jamal (the War of Camel, year 36) where he reminded Talha.
- The Day of the Riders where 9 witnesses testified.


I can narrate many traditions to this effect, but I will stick to a couple for brevity, that are also recorded by people like Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad.

About the Battle of Camel, al-Hakim and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and others recorded that:

We were in the camp of Ali on the day of Battle of Camel, where Ali sent for Talha to talk to him (before the beginning of war). Talha came forward, and Ali told him: I adjure you by Allah! Didn't you hear the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) when he said: `Whoever I am his MAWLA, this Ali is his MAWLA. O God, love whoever loves him, and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him'?" Talha replied: "Yes." Ali said: "Then why do you want to fight me?"

Sunni reference:
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 169,371
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, on the authority of Ilyas al-Dhabbi
- Muruj al-Dhahab, by al-Mas'udi, v4, p321
- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p107

Also:

Abd al-Rahman Ibn Abu Laylah said: I witnessed Ali administering an oath to the people in the plain of Rahbah. Ali said: "I adjure those of you in the name of Allah who heard the Messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir saying `Ali is the Mawla of whom I am Mawla' to stand up and to testify. He who was not an eyewitness doesn't need to stand up." Thereupon twelve (12) such companions who had participated in the Battle of Badr stood up. The occasion is still fresh in my memory.

Sunni references:
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p119, see also v5, p366
- Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,103, narrated similar to above on the authority of three others: Umayah Ibn Sa'd, Zaid Ibn yathigh, and Sa'id Ibn Wahab.

And finally as this post is becoming far longer than I anticipated let me conclude with:

When Ali said to Anas: "Why don't you stand up and testify what you heard from the Messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir?" He answered, "O Amir al-Mumineen! I have grown old and do not remember." Thereupon Ali said: "May Allah mark you with a white spot (of leprosy; Alphosis) unconcealable with your turban, if you are intentionally withholding the truth." And before Anas got up from his place he bore a large white spot on his face, Thereafter Anas used to say, "I am under the curse of the righteous servant of Allah."

Sunni references:

(1) al-Ma'arif, by Ibn Qutaybah, p14, in the account of Anas among disabled persons.
(2) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p199, where he testifies to the above anecdote, as he says : "All stood up except three persons who came under the curse of Ali."
(3) Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v5, p27

I hope this much is sufficient for now on this question, and I only stop for fear of these posts becoming too long on just the answer to this question.

Wassalam

[Faisal_Aslam]

A.A
Is below is your question?
If not then please write again.

on the Day of Judgement, when Allah (SAW) askes u, what good deed did u do for Islam? What will u answer?

Will u be saying i was dissing my fellow Muslims instead of fighting the kuffars???????????????

My answer.
I am agreed with you that moderators should stop this shia/sunni thing.
No one should be allow to speak against or in favor of Shia or sunni. I am agreed ..
But if people like Avoils keep praising Shiaisum as the true path then I want to ask them about my doubts too.
As if they keep praising things which I do not think is right then I can not avoid not to ask...

Faisal Aslam

[Avilos]

Originally posted by Faisal_Aslam
A.A
Is below is your question?
If not then please write again.

on the Day of Judgement, when Allah (SAW) askes u, what good deed did u do for Islam? What will u answer?

Will u be saying i was dissing my fellow Muslims instead of fighting the kuffars???????????????

My answer.
I am agreed with you that moderators should stop this shia/sunni thing.
No one should be allow to speak against or in favor of Shia or sunni. I am agreed ..
But if people like Avoils keep praising Shiaisum as the true path then I want to ask them about my doubts too.
As if they keep praising things which I do not think is right then I can not avoid not to ask...

Faisal Aslam

------------------------------------------------------------

Brother Faisal,

Assalamo Alaikum

You are too unkind.

I have not advocated shi'ism on anyone. I have not said to anybody that they MUST do something or they are kafir, such as set up a khilafa system.

I have not quoted a single shia scholar unless in passing, NOR have I imposed the views of ANY shia scholar upon you or anyone else as a proof or evidence of a matter.

I have chosen the hard option and ONLY responded to direct questions with logical answers backed with Quran and sunnah as recorded in the books of ahlul Sunnah wal jammah, and I have shown in doing so a better knowledge of the very sunnah many here claim to follow.

Any fair mind can see that.

If that upsets you then that is your tough luck.

Never did I think the words of the Prophet (SAW) as recorded in your own books, that reveal the truth of a matter would hurt you all so much.

I feel sickened to the core at times with the unfair and biased attacks you make without pausing to contemplate what exactly is it that you are protesting at - the fact that I am a shia, or the fact that I am narrating hadith of the prophet, from sunni books.

If anyone can find me an evidence I have once submitted from a shia source as an argument of a matter, then please show me and I will NEVER post another posting here again.

If not then I hope the moderators like Brother Star, and particularly brother Mhnew realise what I have said, and the truth of my statement and accept the fact that I have as much right as anybody to argue a point out of the same books that everybody else is referring to.

And I hope that brother's like 1Ummah1Nation will be more tolerant and not so fanatical.

In fact I think if NOBODY can find a single shia hadith I have offered as a sole evidence on a matter for ANY point or ANY debate, then in future those that attack what I post are pointed out as creators of fitnah and banned.

I have already stated, if anyone can find ONE even then I will stop posting myself.

Simply because you are not aware of what is written in your own books is NOT an excuse to have a go at shias.

I hope this puts an end to the stirring of trouble, and yet again shows the truth of a matter.

Wassalam

[Nur]

Originally posted by Faisal_Aslam
A.A

Yes I am not a scholar and have very limited knowledge but I want to learn Shia point of view so I want to ask....
Is it has any problem ?

Assalamu alaikum,
Ok brother, first of all let me explain to you about myself and my attitude, since I seem to have become the subject of discussion in a number of threads. After this explanation you can call me what you like. If you consider me to be a sunni then you should have no problem and if you consider me to be a shia you should still have no problem unless you regard the shias as non-muslims (in which case you must give reasons for going against the sunni ulema who have officially classed the shias as muslims!).

Ok, about myself first! Firstly, I come from a sunni family and I used to attend sunni mosques and I continue going to sunni mosques for salat. For those brothers on this site who are in the uk and who mischievously and unislamically call me brother in public, but then make false accusations against me in private, I invite you to meet with me in the future and let me introduce you to the sunni imams in the sunni mosques who taught me how to read Quran and how to pray.

Like most muslims, I was not aware of madhabs until I joined the islamic society at university. From some of the muslims I learned that because I am a bengali and because of the way I pray I must be a hanfi, even though I did not have a clue what a hanafi was. Form other muslims, I learned that I am simply a muslim. At this point I was taught that shias are not muslims and that people such as Imam Khomeini, who I always had respect for, were not muslims, but in fact enemies of Islam.

I could not accept this for a number of reasons. Firstly, my father and almost all muslims I knew were strong supporters of Imam Khomeini - in fact, as far as I know all the sunni imams in the mosques of manchester strongly supported Imam Khomeini, including the Imam of Victoria Park mosque, the Imam of Didsbury mosque and the imam of Madina mosque.

Also, when Imam Khomeini gave the fatwa against Salman Rushdie the entire muslim world supported him and this fatwa woke up the muslims in the world and the hatred of the kuffar agaiinst the muslims became more apparent and this encouraged muslims to go back to Islam. I could not beleive that someone like Imam Khomeini, who was always totally against the zionists and who gave this fatwa against Salman Rushdie while others remained silent, could not be a muslim.

I decided to look into the matter and first asked my father about shias and sunnis. He told me that both are muslims and the only real differnce was that the shias believed that Ali should have been Caliph while the sunnis believe that Abu Bakr was the rightly the first Caliph. My father considered the differnce to be minor.

Although, I accepted what my father had told me, I decided to research the matter further to see why some "islamic" books and some sunnis were classing the shias as kaffirs. I read many accusations against the shias and decided that if these accusations were true then the shias could not possibly be muslims. For eg, if it was true that the shias thought thtat Ali should have been the last prophet then I could not see how they could be classed as muslims.

The accusations were clearly made by people who hated the shias and so they were biased and often they did not give proper refernce, but expected muslims to just believe what they say without any investigation. I was not prepared to blindly accept what I read about the shias and considered it a duty to talk to the shias and read their books before making a decision about them.

At the islamic society, even though the shias were declared kaffir(which continues even today!), there were many shias who used to pray with the rest of the muslims. I was introduced to one of the shia brothers who held study circles in the local library. I decided to attend the study circle and see exactly what the shias were teaching in their study circles. The study circle was a Quranic study circle, that is, a few verses of the Quran (Yusuf Ali's translation) would be read out and then we would discuss the meaning of the verses.

I found that most of the people attending the study circle were sunnis and were aware of the fact that the person heading the study circle was a shia. I found the shia brother to be very pious and I had never seen anyone more islamic in my life in the practical sense.

I decided to ask the shia brother about the accusations made against the shias and I was very satisfied with the answers that I received. I did not accept anything from the brother which was from shia sources, because I felt that it may be biased, but only accepted that which was from sunni sources.

Later I looked into the matter myself and found that the shia brother did not say anything that was not in the sunni books. For eg, I was not aware of the fact that Abu Bakr took land off Fatima, which the Holy Prophet (saw) had given to her. I bought a copy of Bukhari, translated by a sunni scholar called Muhammad Assad and I found the hadith relating to this very event. While Muhammad Asad believed that Abu Bakr was right in taking the land off Fatima (Abu Bakr argued that the children of the prophets do not inherit) I could not believe that both Ali and Fatima could have got it wrong about the Holy Prophet (saw) giving land to Fatima as a gift and I agreed with the shia view that Abu Bakr was wrong in doing so.

I found out many other things which I was not previously aware of, including the status of the ahl-ul-bayt according to both shias and sunnis and the fact that certain companions such as Ayesha, Talha and Zubayr, not only opposed the ahl-ul-bayt, but actually fought against the ahl-ulbayt. I found all this from sunni history books and not from shia history books.

In particular, I found that sunni scholars claim to love and follow the ahl-ul-bayt and that some sunni scholars went as far as saying that the sunnis are the real shias (meaning followers of ahl-ul-bayt). In manchester the sunni mosques regularly have functions to remember the ahl-ulbayt and in discussions they argue that they follow the ahl-ul-bayt. The sufis too claim to follow the ahl-ul-bayt.

I also found out that fatwas had been given by sunni ulema, declaring the shias to be muslims and the shia madhab to be an islamic madhab, and that meetings were held between the muslim nations in which it was decided that the shia madhab is an islmaic madhab. I also found that well established sunni scholars such as Ahmad Deedat, praised the shias of Iran and spoke for unity between shias and sunnis.

I found that some of the sunni scholars even agreed with the shias in certain areas. For eg, Imam Abu Hanifa, the founder of the main sunni madhab, classes Abu Hurayra and certain other companions as unjust.

It was these findings that led me to believe that the shias are correct in what they say. In particular, I accept the shia ulema of Iran as being true scholars of Islam and I agree with the shia view regarding the companions and the ahl-ul-bayt. In that sense I may be called a shia.

However, I do not call myself a shia for a number of reasons. Firstly, I come from a sunni family (and I believe that most of the sunnis here are only sunnis because they come from a sunni family). Secondly, all my views are based on sunni sources (eg sahih hadith collections and history books, such as al-tabari, ibn hisham, ibn kathir, ibn athir) and not on shia sources at all. Thirdly, I was always taught that sunnis are called sunnis because they follow Quran and sunna, and I believe that I am not contradicting Quran and sunna in any way at all. I believe it is against Quran and sunna to say that I have to accept all companions as righteous and that I have to accept that Abu Bakr was rightly the first Caliph. Fourthly, the sunnis scholars claim to follow the ahl-ul-bayt imams, so by following the ahl-ulbayt imams I am only doing what sunnis are supposed to do. Fifthly, according to the sunni history books and the sunni scholars, the sunni imams, such as Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Shafi became followers of the ahl-ul-bayt and did not in fact set up a madhab in competion with the school madhab of the ahl-ul-bayt, but rather they were killed by the caliph and their madhab was established after their deaths. Sixthly, the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar, who was a sunni, gave a fatwa in 1959 saying that the shia madhab is just another madhab like th four sunni madhabs.

I have said what my beliefs are now and I have made it clear why I don't call myself a shia, but i any case I don't care what anyone calls me. At the end of the day I have beliefs which I can give reasons for, unlike certain people on this site who call themselves sunnis, while not knowing what sunnism even is.

At least I make it clear that my views match with the shia views, unlike those on this site who claim to be sunnis while clearly preaching wahabism or another brand of Islam, contradictory to the sunni madhabs.

I might not find time to read long answers (so please write to the point answers)... Please do not ask more questions form me "in this thread and only answer my questions and ask your questions next time..." (if possible ). I will accept Shahi Bukari ,Shahi Muslim and Quran references for sure so if possible try to give answer from them...


Answer in the order

1) Is there was some directions by Muhammad (PBUH) of Making Hazrat Ali as a first Khalifa..?

There is a thread titled, "The true last sermon of the Holy Prophet", by Avilos. In that thread the last sermon of he Holy Prophet (saw) is given in wihch the Holy Prophet (saw) in front of 100,000 muslims said that they should follow the Quran and the ahl-ul-bayt and in the Holy Prophet (saw) said that Ali is the master of whoever the holy prophet (saw) was the master of.

The following is a link to an online book called "Ghadir Khum" which lists all the books and scholars and companions who have reported this event.

http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

In Sahih Muslim, the Holy Prophet (saw) is reported to have said that after he leaves the world the muslims must follow "the book of Allah" and the ahl-ul-bayt and many other haiths makes it clear that Ali was a member of the ahl-ul-bayt.

In both Sahih Bukari and Sahih Muslim, there are numerous hadiths inwhich the Holy Prophet (saw) is reported to have said that he will have 12 leaders from the Quraysh succeeding him and that after the last one dies the world will end. The last one is clearly Imam Mahdi.

In the Quran, there is a verse in which Ibrahim is promoted from prophethood to status of Imam. Ibrahim then asks whther his descendants will be imams too and Allah replies that only those of his descendants who have never sinned can be imams of the people. Ali is a direct descendant of Ibrahim and according to Quranic verses and hadiths and the opinions of the sunni ulema he never committed a sin.

In al-tabari's history book and other sunni history books, the Holy Prophet (saw) in the beginning of his mission declared before the people that Ali is his "brother, executioner and successor".

There ismuch more evidence I can give from sunni sources, but I will keep it short and stop now as you requested.

However, I would like to say that there is not a single hadith or historical account according to which the Holy Prophet (saw) left Abu Bakr as a sucessor and in fact Abu Bakr was elected by a few sompanions, which did not include Ali and Ali did not give allegieance to Abu Bakr, according to bukhari, for 6 months.

3) If YES is the answer of first question.
Then why Hazrat Ali (who is one of the great Shahaba) had not take stand against first 3 Khalifa?
I consider Ali as one of the greatest Shahaba and I can not believe that he will not stop any thing against Muhammad (PBUH) Saying/order with his hands (with force). Do you think Hazrat Ali by not taking any stand against first 3 Khalifa commit a sin? (I do not think so). Or do you have any reference that tells that Ali had gone on war against them or so .. Why Ali had not implement Muhammad (PBUH) saying with force (that Ali must be first Khalifa)?

He did take a stance against them, according to the sunni sources. In fact he did not give allegiance to Abu Bakr and if you read bukhari you will find that even later there was conflict between Umar and Ali. So much pressure was put on Ali to give alegiance that even land that was given to fatima by the Holy Prophet (saw) was taken off Fatima and Ali as an economic pressure - later after Ali gave allegiance it was given back.

When Ali was asked to follow the example of Abu Bakr and Umar as well as Quran and sunna, he refused, which means that he was not pleased with their ways. During the caliphate of the first 3 caliphs he did not have a governmet position. When he became Caliph he removed all the people that Uthman had put in power.

Ali made it clear that the muslims were required to follow him and the other members of the ahl-ul-bayt.

The fact that Ali did not fight does not prove that the first 3 caliphs were right. Abu Bakr and Umar, according to hadiths in bukhari and muslim, disobeyed the Holy Prophet (saw) on numeruos ocasions, but the holy prophet (saw) did not react by fighting with them.

Also, if Ali fought against the Caliphs there was a serious risk of islam being destroyed. At that time Islam was just established and there were many enemies still waiting to destroy the power of Islam. For many years the idolaters and the yahudis fought against the Holy Prophet (saw) and his followers and tried to stop the religion of islam growing and being acepted by the people. These people did not dissapear and would have taken advantage of a civil war in the islamic state. For eg, Abu Sufyan who opposed the Holy Prophet (saw) and islam to the very end, offerd to give support to Ali if he decided to fight Abu Bakr. Ali refused, saying that Abu Sufyan did not care for islam before and he did not caref for it now. The fact that Abu Sufyan even offered his services to Ali shows that there was conflict between Abu Bakr and Ali. At this time also there were a few false prophets causing confusion and had there been a war these false prophets would have been more effective.

There is a famous story about a judgement of the Prophet, Solomon. One day 2 women came before him with a child. Both claimed to be the mother. Solomon said that the baby should be cut in half and then the women should take half each. One of the women agreed, while the other said that she did not want the baby to be cut in half and would prefer it if the other woman kept the baby. Solomon then ddecided that the real mother was the womon who would rather sacrifice the claim to the child rather than have it cut in half. At the time of the Holy Prophet (saw)'s death, Islam was like the baby and Ali like the real mother, decided it was wiser to give up his right to the Caliphate than to fight Abu Bakr, as there was a danger that such a fight could cause the destruction of Islam.

Ali tried his best to avoid fighting even Muwawiyah and Ayesha who declared war against him during his caliphate and he even tolerated the khawarij to a certain point.

In the history of the prophets and the pious men, they either fought injustice and if unable to do that they made it clear that they were against the injustice. Ali made it more than clear that his right to the Caliphate was usurped.

I could say a lot more, but will now stop in order to try and keep it as short as possible.












I want to ask few more question later in this thread after getting satisfying answer of above 3 . Please just consider me a person who want to learn . Okay?

Faisal Aslam [/b]

[Faisal_Aslam]

Avilos

I only know that few months ago I am even unaware of who is pro Shia or so and who is not...

And This religion forum was like a religion forum and I could ask good questions very easily and now this forum is not a religion forum but a Shia/Sunni forum.
May be I am also involve in this bad thing of this Shia/Sunni stuff.
But the fact is that you have started few thread that have to do with Shia/Sunni like discussing Imams etc. I think there was no need for writing thing perticular to shia or sunni in this way...
So you are also involve in this yacky Shia/Sunni stuff. And that does not matter either you write from Shia books or Sunni. THAT DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL...

Faisal Aslam

[Edited by Faisal_Aslam on 14th June 2001 at 13:13]