reply: is iran an islamic state? part one

[mahdi]

bismil rabil noor,
asslamu alaikum,
br islamicboy,
your 'HizburTahrir POSTED' analysis of the constitution was absolutely incorrect and not according to islam, you gave no 'dalil' just the views of some non alem non scholars who have no authority of ijtihad nor are they even simple shaikhs. just reading a few ayas of qur'an does not make a mufti. history has shown us how many sahabas went astray and lost islam, how many hafiz of qur'an went astray let alone some non muftis giving fatwas on what is and is not islamic.
in brief the constitution of iran was written by mujtahids and endorsed by imam khomeini himslef. it was read bit by bit and written bit by bit to make sure that it is in accordance with islam.
i understand that based on your understanding (or rahter HT's) parts of it is violating islam. I will answer all those bit by bit because you are clearly very wrong and i have the answers to prove it, but do you think that you are a better judge than imam khomeini who gave all his life and his sons for islam. when he died he had been a student of islam for over ninety years, read one or two of his book to see how deep his knowledge was. from the age of thirty he was a mujtahid and one of the brightest scholars in qom among thousands of mujtahids. millions around the world followed his fatwas. why would he let an un islamic law enter into the constitution when he fought all his life for an islamic state and he had full command and respect of the whole nation? or is it more likely that your assessment is wrong? where do you get your assessment from, surely you are not a mujtahid, are any of hizbur tahrir leaders mujtahid? who?did not HT for years get their fatwas from omar bakri?he is studied for a few months in saudi arabia(the prokuffar non islamic state!!!)how can you accept the words of these people? did hT not give a fatwa to suport saddam and then apologise?
do they not give fatwas that intifada of palestinians is wrong too?
did they not give fatwa that bosnian jihad was wrong too? ask farid qasim what he said in london during those days
ask jamal harwood what he said in manchester victoria mosque about the palestinian uprising and that it was stupid and futile.
have they not become humble and stop issuing fatwas yet?
we have to either follow your assessment which is really the assessment of those HT guys from years ago who are living on the benefit from kuffar and make false claims that they are actively looking for work while they have no intention in doing so(and that is not haram) or we believe imam khomeini and hundreds of mujtahids who still look and check every single law that is passed.
when a bill is passed by the iranian majlisal shoura(parliament) it does not become law until approved or amended by the council of mujathids for islamic worthiness.
when your khailfs were killing their relative who checked to see if the action was islamic. when yazid killed imam hussain which council of mijtahids approved his fatwa?
iran is more islamic than any khilafa that we have ever had and at least of the caliber of those early khalifs, the rashideen. the leader of this state unlike some of the past khalifs does not drink wine, does not murder his brothers in fear that they may oppose him etc etc. it was a khalif who killed imam ja'far al sadeq who was the great garndson of the prophet s.a.w. and the teacher of imam abu hanifa. wh killed imam abu hanifa?
khalifs. yet you keep going on about these khalifs whose action were never governed by any islamic law and telling me iran is not islamic becasue arabic is not the official langauge!!
the khilafa you talk about you will never be able to build and if you do it will never be half as islamic as iran is. because to build a better state you need a khalif or a leader better and wiser than imam khomeini, and that is something that i am sure no muslim will think is an easy coming.

the second point is , the article
that you copied is ten years old, it is the analysis of kuffar and not valid. to show yo uhow wrong they were and how wrong you are in posting things from kuffar it suffices to say that,
muhtashami, karubbi etc are now being called the pro-reformists and rafsanjani is called the hardliner. ten years ago it was the other way round as your kuffar written article clearly demonstrates.

i give some examples to your misunderstanding of what is islamic or not.
you say"the language of islamic state should be arabic"
why? what is your 'dalil'? who issued this fatwa?
there is no compultion in islam never mind in language. islam has not fought or changed the languages of the people. is there any hadith or aya to say that the people should speak one language? no. in fact qur'an say 'i created you from diferent tribes so that you learn and understand each other'
i am not dismissing the importance of learning arabic, anyone who loves qur'an will know that to read and hear it the way it came different form reading the traslation. also, those who want to teach islam or mujtahids need to know arabic in an academic sense so that they can undertand it but there is no compulsion on the ordinary masses.
if i am wrong and you have any 'dalil' then bismillah please give the dalil.

you say"islamic state is not a republic!!!call it what you want, as you keep saying call it leader, khalif, imam it is the same. what is important is the contents not the name. this is why we keep asking you what is the contents of your khilafa. because the name does say anything.
in islam the people have a right and they choose the leader, khalif etc. only those directly appointed by allah s.w.t are to be followed like the prophets and imams. we cannot choose imam mahdi a.s. but as you yourself have agreed a khaif is chosen by people and then given bay'a by poeple. of course it seems that those saying this have not given it a thought, because once you choose a khalif then that means that you have given bay'a and you do not need to do it twice.
qur'an say 'wa amrahom showra bainahom' (their orders are a matter of discussion among them)which means that they choose.
what you must understand is to distinguish between what people have a right to choose and what they do not. they cannot choose to change laws if this falls outside the boundaries of islam and this is not permitted inthe constitution. but they can choose the head of the council that collects rubbish or the person who is going to look after the economy. but the person is then bound by the laws and has to do his works in accordance with islam.

yo ucomplain about the fact that the constitution says the laws are according the the shia school of thought, while it also respects and reserves the rights of all other muslim sects. this is a compliment, is it not. then yu give another slogan that it should be accorindg to sharia!
well we all know that each school of thought has his own version of sharia, your khailfa, accorindg to which sharia will it be?do not say the real one because non of the sects are claiming to be foloower of the wrong one.
these are questions you have thought of and keep saying khilafa. any state will need clearly defined program, when it says islam it must be clear according to which version, iran without hypocracy has done so, HT and their khilafa group have not done so.
you must clearly define is your khilafa going to be according to hanafi school, shafe'i, hanbali, maleki school or the wahabi version? otherwise you are proposing a pluristic state that is totally opposed to islamic ideology. you cannot have a state with laws according to everyone and every group. what is important, for the sake of unity, to preserve the rights of all muslims and non muslims to live inan islamic state. this is what iran has done.
i will post you other point in another message this is getting too long.
i apologise if i cause any offence.
may He guide us all and reveal the truth to our hearts.
wasalam,
mahdi

[Abdur_Rahman]

Mashallah brother Mahdi
an excellent reply,
Please ht/mohajoroon brothers as I always repeat ANSWER these questions and points and DO NOT start another topic.

[islamicboy]

salaam brothers


please brothers just post the correct iranian constitution then???


and let us muslims see for ourselves if it is based on islam or not.


jazak allah

[muhammad]

Salaam Mahdi,

Thanks for your educative response to the subject. I am interested in the Islamic state of Iran and look forward to the next part.

Regards,
Muhammad

[Abdur_Rahman]

Originally posted by islamicboy:
salaam brothers
please brothers just post the correct iranian constitution then???
and let us muslims see for ourselves if it is based on islam or not.
jazak allah

As the Brother mentioned somethings in life are not for every Tom Dick and Harry, in the context we are talking abot tsuch thjings are there for the real Mujtahids to ponder over.

Again brother IBoy you are ignoring the real questions put to you.
Lets say for the sake of the arguement that Iran is nothing, Now please tell me what is your solution and reply to the numerous Questions put forward by Brother Mahdi such as
1. How do you elect/select a Khalif
2. On what basis
3. what qualities should that Khalif have
4. Khalif Yazid Butchered the Holy family of the Holy Prophet (Saw)in Karbala and he also ordered his troops to destroy the Kaba, WAS he right since he was the Khalif, was it Islamic?
4.Muawiyya waged a bloody war against the Amirul Mumineen ALI (Siffin) who was right and who was wrong (Dont tell me they were both correct, because both were killing each other!)was not Muawiyya a Khalif?
what about the numerous other Ummayad and Abbasid Khaliphate and Khalifs who at th esame time were Tyrrant/Oppressor/Unislamic/Womeniser/drank Alcohol etc?

Please answer these and other questions and shut up if you can not.

Khudahafiz

[mahdi]

bismil rabil noor,
asslamu alaikum,
brother islamic boy nw you have created another 'bid'a' without any 'dalil'.
you are setting conditions to prove our sincerity, 'let us meet and discuss it if you are sincere'!!! since when this is a proof of sincerity.
i will be more than happy to meet you but just tell me why are you embarrased about discussing an issue of such importance. give me a reason.
i am seeking the truth and do not fear if i am wrong, i will just simply accept then and say alhamdollillah. i think those reading desserve to be part of this important discussion. if they are to establish khilafa then do they not need to knwo how and the rest of our questions?

as for the constitution, if i had an electronic copy then i would have given it to you. you seem to have better access to these than i do. i have a hard copy at home, which is th eold one and snce it has been revised. but the jist of the matter is the same.
what qulaifications do you have to be able to judge whether it is or it is not islamic? i am not being arrogant whatever you are i am less than you, but do yo not think that one has to be a highly esteemed mujtahid to judge these issues? if sahabis, fought each other at the early islam surely it was because some thought that the other is not islamic while the person thought that he was, unless you say he was a monafeq. therefore, this proves that such matters are not for simple deductions. but if you think that you can decide without a mujtahid of sound knowledge then be it.ii welcome a meetin gwith you and at least ell me the city and when i can come i will bring the hard copy to shhow you and discuss it face to face.
but please feel obliged to answer some of the questions raised. if you do not think iran is islamic be it, i do not have nor can i have a problem with that. do not give bay'a. i never posted and asked for bay'a other than in response to your pro khilafa messages.
but our questions stand and the worst answer is the one you gave, which is no answer. therefore, for me this is a good answer because the readers will see that after all that talk beneach the surface, once scratched there is nothing.
nevertheless, insha'allah we meet and we can discuss more.
sorry if i upset you and i apologise if i have been impolite, please forgive me. i am typing as i go and sometimes the fingers work faster that the brain and shaytan slips in.
we are all brothers and no matter what views we hld, i will if need be die fro you as i am sure you will for me. it is the strength of islam that has a large house and can accomoddate us all.
wasalam,
your humble brother mahdi

[Abdur_Rahman]

Brother mahdi I whole heartedly agree with you.

If I have offended anyone then please forgive me as I am just another human.

But the questions remain where are all the answers IBoy/Showkhot etc?