do we fight for islam now and defend muslims now or wait for the khalif?

[mahdi]

bismil rabil noor,
assalamu alaikum,
ther is a confusion among some muslims that we must wait until a khalif has emerged then we can fight and defend islam.
according tothis school, which i have no doubt is supported by the kuffar inorder to passify muslims and make them wait rather than act, the palestinian uprising is wrong.
in a gathering several years ago with some leaders of hizbur tahrir, they suggested that the palestinians who are thrwing stones at israelis are wasting time and effort. they should instead work for establishment of khilafa. How?
also, in answer to questions that should we go and help muslims inbosnia, during their war with serbia, they said no. this is not jihad and only the order of a khalif could muslims go and fight kuffar.
now the same groups tries to lead us without any track record of active struggle. living a cushioned life they preach to those who are give their blood for islam.
to establish an islamic state one must strive with blood not mouth. it is easy to talkand kuffar are not affraid of mouth, they are affraid of blood. that is why they have set up grouplets that passify muslims and keep them at home while wishing that khalif would land frm the moon with a ready made package silamic state. perhaps the package hoidays they regularly goto had led them to believe that khilafa comes in the same form.
wasalam,
mahdi

[islamicboy]

salaam brother mahdi


so i want to ask why are you, brother nur, and abdur rahman not there in palestine with hezbuallah fighting jihad.

Did you also go to bosnia to fight jihad???

What about kosovo???

What About kashmir???


Where was the hezbuallah and the Iran when the Muslims in the Iraq were massacred??


Why is is that iran being part of the UN acknowledges the sanctions imposed on the iraqi muslims where to date over 1 million muslim children have been killed due to lack of medical aid???

can you also provide a constitution of the the islamic state. You keep sayin that myself or showkot have not provided any evidences. But yourself you claimed that iran is a an islamic state so provide us with constitution. So insha allh if it is based on koran and sunnah i will aknowledge iran as an islamic state.


jazak allah

[Abdur_Rahman]

Salam to all the beleivers

so i want to ask why are you, brother nur, and abdur rahman not there
in palestine with hezbuallah fighting jihad.

brother, we do not shout and scream like you do, if we say something we will implement it but it is you who call for Jihad, Islamic state etc, so the really the question falls on you, i.e why are you and the rest of the HTs/Muhajiroons not there in those places you mentioned.

And for the 10th time brother PLEASE answer the points raised by all the brothers and dont just simply ask more questions, answer first this as more.

Did you also go to bosnia to fight jihad???
Did you or any of the talkers including your Khalifa Bakri go?????

What about kosovo???

What About kashmir???


Where was the hezbuallah and the Iran when the Muslims in the Iraq
were massacred??

where were you and your Jihadis???

Why is is that iran being part of the UN acknowledges the sanctions
imposed on the iraqi muslims where to date over 1 million muslim
children have been killed due to lack of medical aid???

can you prove that iran supports the sanction against the PEOPLE of Iraq, sanction against the Iraqi Saddam and his government is another matter, because he is also another Khalif of yours just like the cursed Khalif Yazid who slaughtered the Holy family of the Prophet(Saw). Oh yes you would give baya to this Barbarian who probably killed more Muslims and has more blood of the muslims in his hands than the allied during the persian gulf war to him notheing matters Shi or sunni he just does not like the muslims, you can not really blame him he is just a puppet and the sad part is some muslims think he is a saviour, and from what I heard the HTs wanted to give baya if this monster declared as the Khalif!

can you also provide a constitution of the the islamic state. You keep
sayin that myself or showkot have not provided any evidences. But
yourself you claimed that iran is a an islamic state so provide us with
constitution. So insha allh if it is based on koran and sunnah i will
aknowledge iran as an islamic state.

can you please back up what you said, I just wanted to know from you which part of Irans constitution is based on the French constitution. I am not for or agianst this but dont you know that Napolian Bonapart became a muslim and some certain parts of his constitution was based from the muslim's social justice, If what you said is true I wont we suprised at all.


jazak allah



[This message has been edited by Abdur Rahman (edited 10 October 2000).]

[mahdi]

bismil rabil nor,
assalamu alaikum,
br islamic boy, you have disproved your own points.
your inability to answer questions raised is shown by throwing up more questions.
1-you are yet to tell us how you and hizbur tahrir plan to establish khilafa
2-what is the quality sought in khalif and why was yazid a khalif, saddam a would be khalif but imam khomeini not?
3-when do you give bay'a and when not
4-why was saddam, who has killed more muslims that any other kuffar and is hated by muslims of iraq and brought so much misery to muslims was loved by hizbur tahrir and they gave fatwas, again by non alem and self proclaimed mujtahid, that muslims should declare jihad and side with saddam in the last war.
5-what was the 'dalil' to say that we should side with one kafir-like called saddam to fight another like king fahd?why did HT support the invasion of kuwait, which led killing and raping of muslims?
6-since hizbur tahrir love the people of iraq were where they when the kurds were gased by saddam? did they issue jihad?
7-according to hizbur tahrir it is the khalif who has authority over the lives of muslims and umma therefore, in his absence how can you issue fatwas on what is right and wrong, is that not the responsibility of the khalif?
8-what is the position of hizbur tahrir with regards to palestinians fighting for their land and quds?in the absence of a khalif what is the dalil for doing jihad as they are doing? according to HT they should be sitting and waiting for khalif then fight!!
9-why should iran and hizbullah help saddam, what is the dalil that says help a criminal like saddam who promotes sale of alchohol, has prostitution as free trade and used to supply his army with alchohol and women in order to keep them fighting.
10-when you accuse iran of supporting sanction against iraq, what is your evidence?
11-what is the dalil that we should not be part of UN, there are many kufr institutions and UN is only one of them, does this fatwa extend to all or just UN?why?
12-do kuffar have a right to take charge of peoples money or is that the right of a khalif? if kuffar do not have this right then they do not have a right to expend of it either, therefore the money given as grants, social security, loans etc by kuffar is haram, in other words they are, without authority giving peoples money to others? how do HT leaders and muhajeroon leaders justify living on these monies?is it not haram?
13-why are all HT leader free to call for the death of kuffar in the middle of the land of kuffar but other muslims, namely hizbullah cannot say hiss without being harassed?
14-the answer to your question ..
Where was the hezbuallah and the Iran when the Muslims in the Iraq were massacred??
....they along with iraqi muslims were killing iraqi soldiers who were serving the kafir-aided saddam.
15-your other question..
Did you also go to bosnia to fight jihad???
What about kosovo???
for sure hizbullah were present in all those cases. that is why if you go to bosnia or kosovo you will see that the people have great respect for hizbullah. the issue is not if i went to do jihad or not but if hizbur tahrir would support such a jihad and the answer is NO they would not.

finally, it is rich getting those questions from you. it is you who in every message is talking about khilafa and islamic state and not us.
as for the constition of iran, i am sure the same people who have given you the other information can supply you with the constittion too. as for it being islamic, it was endorsed by imam khomeini who was a marja, grand ayatollah who devoted all is life to islam, if you ever find an alem of his stature then you can ask for his opinion but please do not keep using the opinion and fatwas issued by uneducated, social security bread self-loving, big-talk no-action individuals like the heads of HT and muhajerun as your measure of what is in accordance with sharia or not.

be humble and accept truth believe me you will feel lighter and more at ease and you will never get embarasing question any more because you will always have a logical answer ever after.
to show you how wrong your perception of islam is give me an answer on this
was ima hussain right to rise against yazid, if yes then how do you add your answer to the hadith you quoted, the one that says you behead the challenger of a khalif. if the naswer is no the how would you explain th ahadith the hussain is the youth of paradise.
you see if you followed islam like me, straight form ahlul bait and un adultered you would not be embarrased by this question and have a quick answer. buy as you do not follw the full version you will now get into a twist trying to answer and evern more trying to justify you answer.
there are many more questions that i hope you wil be prepared to answer.
wasalam
mahdi

[Abdur_Rahman]

Brothers IslamicBoy and Showkat and those concerned PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE answer the 13 or so questions raised by Brother Mahdi to you; and DO NOT ask any more untill you have answered them all.

May Allah the Supreme show us all the true and correct path.

[Abdur_Rahman]

A

[This message has been edited by Abdur Rahman (edited 11 October 2000).]

[Anti-Muslim]

THE JIHAD THAT IS WHAT I WANT!!