Holocaust = Picnic

[faruque_ahmed]

Nazi Holocaust (as they claim!) is a picnic comparing to Israeli HOLOCAUST in Palestine over 52 years, infront of your and my eyes. What have we done about the Israeli HOLOCAUST?

How can one group of Holocaust claimants are compensated while other group of Holocaust victims are victimised further?

[habagoba]

Hello Brothers,
The Jew controlled Western media have brain-washed us since our birth!

Let's learn from the followers of Hitler; Holocaust never happened. Jews will use any word to manipulate world opinion to achieve their goals! We all should learn from the Jew and beat 'em in their own game! Keep preaching: Holocaust is a B-I-G LIE! Muslims need to really start owning big media and use 'em to unite their own and divide the enemy!

There are 1.25B muslims and less than 15M jews. We have to teach our people their identity and be proud of that identity!

It's about time we set the agenda for world affairs! Just like NATO, we should form our Islamic Peace-Keeping Force to help oppressed brothers around the world - Palestine, Chechnya, Mindanao, Kashmir, Eastern Turkestan, Bosnia, Kosovo etc.

First of all, we should be more tolerant to our fellow muslims and stop fighting based on religious sects or peoples own practice on Islam!

Eat, drink and be a Mujahedeen!

Salam!

-An American Mujahid

[faruque_ahmed]

Salam bro, determination pays! I think, we should use all forms of publications to highlight our grievances.

[yasmin]

To deny the holocaust ever happened is a criminal offence and thus you have rendered yourselves liable to prosecution.

[faruque_ahmed]

A 52 year long Israeli HOLOCAUST happend and happening in Palestine infront of you and me. This HOLOCAUST is supported and funded by the Zionised media and USA, UK ...

Do you want evidence? Here it is:
Can you commiserate those people of Hebrew lineage- with a conscience living in countries like Australia, Asia, Europe, America and Africa: so that they can appreciate how Israel find it necessary to subject the indigenous Palestinians population within it's boarders and occupied territories- to the actions of the diabolical regime that they live under. The Laws of Entry, Citizenship Laws, The Laws of Acquisition of Absentee Property, The Laws of Requisition, Land rights, Education Policy, Right of Return, Water Policy, Expropriation mechanisms, "Closures", "Road Blocks" and many more oppressive laws, regulations and policies of Zionist Israel-are examples of this.

This is not fundamentally different to Hitler's Warsaw ghetto.

While "they" are a party to this HOLOCAUST, I do not have any time for that holocaust as "they" claim. And, if questioning is an offence - so be it! Robust debate and free thinking is the way to go. Not silencing.

[yasmin]

However, I must point out that this is an international offence and to be a holocaust deny er has been prosecuted in the international courts. There has recntly been a high profile case in which a holocaust deny er has been prosecuted. Now, due to your irresponsible postings you could be now subject to the wrath of various intelligence agencies who will track your movements.

[Hasan_Ali_Imam]

Assalamu Alaikum.

I have read the last few exchanges on the issue of the Holocaust and its denial, there does appear to be a contradiction in what some of the brothers are saying. On the one hand one brother equates the Jewish Holocaust with the holocaust against Muslims, on the other hand the Jewish holocaust is considered to be a hoax, in which case it would not be appropriate to equate the alleged Jewish holocaust hoax with the Palestinian holocaust. Here are two points:

1. Equating Jewish holocaust with Palestinian holocaust:

A holocaust survivor of Belsen concentration camp and a dissenter of Israeli policy, Dr. Israel Shahak, made a pertinent point once asked he said that when tear gas is fired at Palestinians within a closed space, how is that different from Jews being gassed during the holocaust? So it is not too far-fetched to equate the two holocausts. However, just by equating the two does not necessarily solve the problem that is present in the Middle East. Whoever is responsible for any crime should face justice. But I believe it is far better to ensure that violence between both sides is gradually reduced through engagement in dialogue, which has not yet been forthcoming between the Muslim and Jewish communities. So far, only politicians and negotiators have tried to represent the Jews and Muslims/Christians but as we have all observed recently, the situation is getting worse by the minute. Politicians have failed, and when Yasir Arafat recently told Ehud Barak to go to Hell, then one wonders what chance there is for peace in the Middle East. A solution to the current problems needs to be found and all Muslims and Jews should work to find a solution. Some people prefer to eliminate Israel altogether, other want peaceful co-existence with the Jews. Whatever option people may choose, it should be made clear that equating the Jewish Holocaust with holocaust against Palestinians is not a key factor in resolving the current problem. Neither will debating the authenticity of the Holocaust help Muslims and Jews to find a solution to immediate problems.

2. Holocaust Denial: This is a very interesting subject... but as mentioned above, does not help to resolve current problems in the Middle East. The Holocaust is the inhuman oppression which Hitler’s Third Reich had metted out to the Jews by gassing them with Cyanide. The number of deaths range from 4 million – 6.25 million Jews. Holocaust deniers include, Dr. Faurisson, Dr. David Irving etc. David Irving claimed that the Holocaust story was an ingenious plan devised by the British Psychological Warfare Executive in 1942 to fool the people into believing that Jews were systematically being gassed by Nazis..a useful propaganda tool. Some Muslim brothers align themselves with the Far Right movements in denying the Holocaust. I watched a video entitled, ‘Satanic Triangle Against Islam’ by Ahmed Huber. He is a journalist who converted to Islam and I did see him in real life delivering a speech when I attended the ‘Imam Khomeini Memorial Conference’ a few years ago. However, coming back to the video, in it he denies the holocaust and encourages Muslims to build links with the Far Right movements….which in itself is highly questionable. Why should Muslims build links with the Far Right?

So what of the Holocaust? I agree with the brother who stated that people should be free to air ones opinions even if it includes questioning the Holocaust. There should be a dialogue between both sides. So far there has been none, but the closest I have come to in assessing both sides of the argument was the famous trial (which Yasmin alluded to in her last post) in the UK. This was the High Court case between, David Irving Vs Deborah Lipstadt.(with Penguin Books Ltd.). Prof. Lipstadt wrote a book entitled, ‘Denying the Holocaust – The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory’. Here she criticises Holocaust deniers, including David Irving. Dr. Irving sued Lipstadt for bringing his reputation into question which entailed a loss of earnings for him. The entire judgement of the Hon. Mr. Justice Gray is available and is 191 pages long. The judgement gives a thorough and detailed report of the proceedings and the arguments which both sides put forward to defend their respective cases. As I read the report, I came to realise that David Irving and some of the other holocaust deniers had in fact twisted facts and misrepresented history. For example, Goebbel’s wrote in his Diaries the events of the ‘Kristallnacht’ (German for the night of the broken glass). This event occurred on 9/10 November 1938 where synagogues, Jewish shops were burned by an angry mob. Goebbels states,

“…I brief the Fuhrer. He orders: let the demonstrations go on. Withdraw the police. The Jews must for one feel the people’s fury…”

However, according to Irving’s translation of the German, Goebbels states,

“…I brief the Furher on the affair. He decides: allow the demonstrations to continue. Hold back the police. The Jews must be given a taste of the public anger for a change”.

In the original version of Goebbel’s diaries, Hitler said that the police should be ‘withdrawn’ from the scene whereas according to Irving, Hitler said that the Police should be ‘held back’. Irving’s version gives the impression that the police were around, but held back, whereas in actual fact the police were completely withdrawn. The problem arises with the German word, ‘zuruckziehen’. Irving translated this as ‘hold back’ whereas one of the defendents in the court case said it actually means ‘withdraw’. So Irving mistranslated the word, thus giving us a false view of what happened. This is one of many examples where Irving misrepresented the state of affairs. David Irving lost the libel case. When I accessed Irving’s website after the County Court Judgement, he indicated on his site that reason behind his failure in the court case was that the witnesses who testified against him were paid a lot of money to take the stand on the witness box. I must say, that this is a silly excuse for failing. If one analyses the judgement in detail then we can see that the arguments put forward by holocaust deniers remain hollow and that’s the real reason for the failure of David Irving’s case.

Another point to consider is that David Irving does believe the holocaust happened, but the victims didn’t run into millions. He also claimed that Hitler did not know anything about the extermination of the Jews. In fact, according to Irving, Hitler reached out to the Jews. This presents a problem for holocaust deniers and the Far Right movements. I have presented the problems in the form of questions for the Far Right:

a) Do they deny the holocaust completely as a hoax? If so, then why would they support David Irving, who believes that the holocaust did happen, albeit in smaller numbers?

b) Do they believe Irving’s claim that Hitler reached out to the Jews? If so, why don’t they make friends with Jews as well since many members of the Far Right are Hitler supporters…neo-Nazis. Yet we find that those who are followers of Hitler hate the Jews and blame them for all the woes of the world… the opposite to what Hitler did according to Irving?

These contradictions within the Far Right thinking need to be addressed. As for those brothers who claim the holocaust did not happen, upon what do you base your conclusion? As for Muslims creating a common defence capability…I don’t disagree there, but many things need to change first before this happens.

Wasslam.
Ali