The unity of the Kuffars

[BOY_4ROM_BENGAL]

Salaam.

I believe that those muslim groups based in London, should not use rhetoric to establish an Islamic state.

If they really want a Islamic state they should go out there and help the brothers who are really fighting for this cause.

Brother AR, what will be the effects of prioritising of having an Islamic state before "Muslims being Muslims first".

And do you not think that an Islamic state would provide a leader which we do not have now.

Also, can there be a positive effect from establishing an Islamic state.That is the spread of Islam and then Muslims bcom Muslims.

Brother, I have no problems with any strategy as long as it spreads the message of Islam (of course in a Islamic way).

Salaam.

[mahdi]

bismil rabil noor,
assalmu alakum,
if i may answer your questions and br AR can give his own answers.
just think and answer these two questinos and then you will see why we need good muslims before we have a state.
1-who is going to lead the state and make it islamic rather than a dictatorship as we had many of these monarcies under khilafa. moaweyya left khilafa to his son yazid who soon after his death set ka'ba on fire.
2-who is going to fight and die in the street of muslim countries and be killed by regimes such as turkey, algeria, jordon, egypt etc etc etc for the sake of islam.? who is going to go to prison, be tortured, expelled inthe way of allah s.w.t. qur'an refers to 'allazhena jahadoo wa hajaroo fee sabilil lah' (those who strived and migrated in the way of allah s.w.t). we need many of these people tht we do not have. talking about islamic state is easy and we all would like to have it but at what cost? for some of us, unfortunately, the cost is very low.
finally, qur'an says 'wa ma ughayeralah beqoumen ma hatta ughayeroo maa be anfosihim' (allah s.w.t will not the affairs of a people until they change themselves).
wasalm
mahdi

[Abdur_Rahman]

Salm to all my God fearing Brothers and sister.
Brother Mahdi thank you for that short but true analysis, I could not say any better although I will try to add a few comments later on the question raised by brother BoyFBengal

[sylhet]

salam to all

this is a veryintering and inspering topic. i have got a little suggestion. instead of looking at other ppl why cant we became true
muslim and go for the points raised by brother mhadi~?

[Abdur_Rahman]

Brother/sister Sylheti I agree with you.

Brother BoyfBengal you said
"If they really want a Islamic state they should go out there and help
the brothers who are really fighting for this cause."
I agree, and empty rhetorics helps no one except the big mouths who are only after attention and to be seen as Muslims with out practising any commandments.
Some brother once was shouting out side the mosque after Juma and said "Jihad against America" he said that his leader " has issed a fatwa against the Americans and the British because of the Gulf war and its aftermath" The 'leader' issued his fatwas based from living in England and that is living on full british state benefits.
I said to the brother where is your leader now, he said that the leader was giving out a lecture somewhere in London. I said since your leader have declared war against US and UK and you accept the verdict then what on earth are you doing here giving out flyer, you and your leader should be fighting the enemies" then he said "no, no we can not fight them in this country" and I said well in taht case go to the country where you can fight against them, and if you have any money problem I swear that i will raise all the money between theme and the brother fromt he mosque for you all to go and fight this 'Jihad" and hten I assure you we all will follow in your footstep, and thats a promise" The brother was numbed, he did not know what to say except that, " you can not fight jihad withou the Khilafa" I then said in that case How tdid you leader manage to issue such a big fatwa? it went on and on...

BfB you said
"Brother AR, what will be the effects of prioritising of having an Islamic state before "Muslims being Muslims first".
Well what can I say Br Mahdi expained it well. you can not have an Islamic state with out first having good muslims. That is not to say that you totally become retualistic and ay no attention to the social aspect of our life.
You see the problem lies here, some go too far and some lag bihind too much. The great Martyr Shaheed Mutahiri explained htis beautifully. He said that today we have Muslims devided into two main divisions. The first group are a peopel who says since Islam pays more attention to the social aspect and political aspect of life we should concerntrate on rectifying and esbablishing this side ( ritual aspect they say is not that important, its better left to the lazy peopel in the Mosque, our role is more important, they give verses from the Quran to justify their claimes such as "give charity... enjoin and establish justice,rtc)i.e. we need to be more political, we need to establish an islamic system and then only then all the problem of the worl will be solved since we will have an Islamic government who will enforce the laws of Allah (SWT). Then there is the second group of people.
The second group on the other hand say that Islam pays more attention to the ritual aspects so we should not be political untill we have perfected our self, they also give out verses supporting their claims such as " establish regular prayer...spend your time in rememberance of God" etc.
The first group has gone too far and the second group has algged far to behind, when in reality non of these groups are right and are not Islamically correct.

Whenever you read the verse " establish reglar salat( prayer); and give regular charity"
If we analyse this verse there are two main points that can be seen. FIRST is that "establish regular salat/prayer and the SECOND is about Charity.
Now the first bit "establish regular salat/prayer" Who do we pray for, is it anything other than Allah (SWT)? NO we pray or offer our salat only for Allah (SWT)so the first part of the verse is all about the relationship between the man and his Creator, its a communication channel between them both. But the second part of the verse is talking bout giving Charity, and who exactly is htis charity for, do we give charity to Allah (SWT) Himself? No Ofcourse not, we give charity to our fellow human being who need our help, so here the second part of the verse is all about the relationship between man and his fellow brothers and sister, in short its a relationship betweent heman and his society and the environment which he lives in.
Wher does it say that you exclude yourself from life and its society and stick to a corner of a mosque qith a Tasbe in your hands and say nothing but "Subhannallah" and dislike any kind of association from the problems of your society?
At the same time where does it say that that you leave all the ritual aspects of Islam i.e. prayers, being kind going, respecting na dcaring for parent, going to hajj etc to the 'lazy peoepe' ignoring this fact and just try to solve the socila and economical problems of the world?
Islam is as the verse says " establish salat and give charity"in other words you are obliged to keep the relationship with Allah (SWT) and the fellow men and its environment.
Thus we cannot ignore either of these two fundamental things. they go hand in hand. To establish an islamic state you have to be good muslims and incorporate the relationship of Allah(SWT)and do perform all the ritual aspects And at the same time an Islamic state established by Good and pious muslims will also take care of the society and its other numerous problems.

You said
"And do you not think that an Islamic state would provide a leader which
we do not have now."
I dont want to say NO directly becasue a true Islamic state does and will produce quality and pious leaders BUT to have an Islamic State you got have the true leader in the First place.
So the condition is the necessity of a true Leader, that doe snot mean you do not doanything becasue you do not have a leader, you must pave th eway for the Leader to emerge, I believe a True leader can emerge from the sleeping giant (the Muslim Ummah) but we have to work for that to happen, This leader has to me as of necessity of the the people, a leader who is both pious, God fearing and also understand the realities of hte current world order and feels deeply for the ordinary man and women, who is completely unselfish and is willing to give his life up for the truth and Justice.

You said "Also, can there be a positive effect from establishing an Islamic
state.That is the spread of Islam and then Muslims bcom Muslims."
Yes there is definately positive effect from establishing an islamic state, but muslims have to be muslims first to have this islamic state specially the Ulemas and they have to be geniune. I will try to elaborate this last point later!
Take care
Salam
AR

Brother, I have no problems with any strategy as long as it spreads the
message of Islam (of course in a Islamic way).

[BOY_4ROM_BENGAL]

Salaam Brother AR.

Excellent answers to my questions.

In addition, I consider that where Islamic States can be established.We should fight either democratically or physically to achieve this.

Of course, the next question would be where.In every country where there is a majority muslim population.

If common sense prevails, then it would be extremely difficult to establish an Islamic State where there is not a Muslim population majority.

But we should never give up our efforts on dawah.

Do you agree?

Salaam.

[Abdur_Rahman]

Salam
Under Islamic laws Muslim minorities living in a non muslim country ware required to obey the law of the land so as long as the fundamental religious rights are not hindered.
Another thing no muslims is allowed to force Islam to anyone, that is why Alaal SWT says "La Iqra Ha Fiddin" "let there be no compulsion in religion". Isalm is a religion which gives the peopel the choice to choose, and if one does want to become a mulsim the he or she is urged to understand it wiht reason and wisdom before coming into it This is against the concept of 'blind faith'.
Islamic state can be established where there are muslims in significan numbers (I have to confirm this)who want it and are capable of delivering it. There are so many muslim countries that needs true Islamic Government...
continue later!