ALLAAH - Who is he?

[WORD]

Hi everybody,
I am a new mumber of this board and I am really interested in discussing the following
contrevercial article, "Allaah - Who is he?"
I am looking for rational debaters and not fanatical warriors.
Yours,
WORD.
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Article:
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Muslims claim and many of them believe that Allah, the god they worship, is the same as the God of the Bible, Yahweh Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They even provide many arguments to try to prove their point and to some degrees they have been successful enough to convince/deceive the world, mainly Christians and Jews to believe it too.
Regarding this topic, the Christian Church has been divided into three categories. Each group has its own arguments which makes it so hard to correctly discern who is right and who is wrong. The three main theories are:
* Allah is the same as God, except that Muslims see him differently. Mainly traditional Churches, i.e. Catholics see it that way.
* The god of the Quran and the God of the Bible are totally two different gods but both of them share in the same common noun for deities, Allah in Arabic. Most of Evangelical Churches see it from this prospective.
* Allah should not be associated with God period. Only a minority of Christians and Churches has been brave enough to stand firm on this claim and never bowed to compromise. In this article we will examine who is Allah from three perspectives, terminology (linguistic), etymology (history) and theology and compare it with the Bible God. Toward the end we will expose some mysterious insights and findings about Allah.
TERMINOLOGY - LINGUISTICS:
1- Allah verses Al-Ilah:
One of the most confusing things about the term Allah is the fact that Allah and Al-Ilah are homonyms, two words which are pronounced and spelled very closely but have different meanings. The most confusing is that both share a similar meaning, but are not identical. Allah is a proper name of a specific and unique being/thing (i.e. Yahweh for the Bible God, Christ for the appointed Savior, Satan for the king of demons, Taiwan for the R.O.C. nation…) Meanwhile, Al-Ilah a defined common noun which can be used for any deity. It can be the-god Yahweh, Baal, Buddha, Brahman or Satan. Therefore, in one had we can confidently say that Allah is Al-Ilah (the-god) but Al-Ilah is not for sure Allah. The closest English homonyms that I found similar to our case are the terms "Gay" and "Guy." A gay is a guy, but a guy is not necessarily a gay. That is how the Allah and Al-Ilah's case should be so clear and obvious to an Arabic native speaker.
Where is the confusion then?
There are two main arguments, which cause the confusion and trap even a native Arab:
a) Allah is the contraction of Al-Ilah: This theory is a fraud because there is no grammatical rule in Arabic or example, which can support it. Such principle is foreign to Arabic for two reasons: There is no capital letters and small letters in Arabic characters, there no A/a or I/i. Even if we want to apply the Western (Latin) principal of converting nouns into pronouns, we actually should alter the definite article (al) and have an "I" instead of "i", therefore, "al-ilah" (the-god) should be transformed to "Ilah" (God) not "Allah".
b) Allah is a derivation form the verb 'alaha: This theory is also another fraud which stand on no ground. Usually, in Arabic as in Semitic languages, words derive from root verbs. For example the proper name of God, Yahweh, derives from the verb hayah (to be). Unfortunately, the term Allah ('+l+ll+a+h) does not fit with any of the possible derivations of the verb 'alaha, in accordance with the grammatical rules for derivation, called the tone of verbs: fa3ala/'alaha, yaf3alu/ya'lahu, fi3aal/'ilaah, maf3uwl/ma'luwh… In other words, there is fa33aal/'allaah and even if we consider it, the meaning of 'allaah should be he who deitify. It contradicts he who is to be detified (alma'luwh)!
Both arguments to prove that Allah and Al-Ilah are the same are so weak and cannot stand their ground. When concerned parties are refuted and confronted about their wrong assumptions they switch to other theories, which make no senses either but are mere speculations.
2- Some of the other speculations:
Some of the most common fallacies that both Muslims and pro-Allah Christians use to try to back-up their arguments are:
a) The "alif" and "lam" in Allah stands for El/Elohim (god/gods in Hebrew): With such explanation we find ourselves facing some other problems, like: If the "al" stands for god, so what's "lah" implication. Such suffix has no place in Arabic and specifically it does not transform a noun into a pronoun or plural form. The Hebrew term "el" is only a common noun so our question/exclamation is how Allah became the very personal name for God? Besides, AL in Arabic is a definite article and has no other different application.
b) Allah is the Arabic transliteration of Eloah/Alaha (god in Hebrew/Aramaic): The main problem with this theory is still the fact that eloah/alaha are only common nouns while Allah is supposed to be a proper name. Notice also the difference in the tone (stress in allah) and the difference in utterance.
c) Allah is the contraction of Alleluiah: This is one of the silliest arguments and its used mainly as an argument among non-Arabic speakers by Muslim propagandists. Notice, the word Alleluiah is mis-transliterated (Halleluyah) and it is in itself a transliteration for a Hebrew sentence: Praise the Lord. How did they link it with Allah? Using blind deception!
3- The main obstacle and question:
Linguistically we cannot prove that Allah is simply the synonym of God in English, Theos in Greek or Elohim in Hebrew. Even if we would accept it as the generic name of God we would still have to face the challenge/claim of Muslims that it is the very personal name of God, parallel to Yahweh in Hebrew. There is absolutely no way for us to link the term Yahweh with Allah. The Bible tells us in Deu.18:20 that any prophet should speak in the name of Yahweh. Unfortunately, Muhammad never spoke in Yahweh's name but in the name of Allah. The worst thing, the term Allah stands in Hebrew for oak tree and it is used in the Old Testament. Why would God causes such confusion, especially that the Jews are one of the main groups that Muhammad claim to come as a prophet to.
ETYMOLOGY - HISTORY:
1- The pre-Islamic Allah:
From the data that we have, even from the Quran, Allah was a pagan god of Arabia, one of many as 360 gods from all the Arabian tribes. The only exception is the fact that he was their chief god. He has a consort, Allat, and two daughters, Al-Uzza and Manat.
Some scholars speculate that he was the moon-god, others say that he was the sun-god, still others say that his origin is from Babylon and linked with the god Lil and some others identify him with Hubal (Baal) of Moab… Allah's worship was also linked with Animism and Sabianism, two pagan religions, which believe in one god. Why such controversies then? Because when Muhammadans took over Arabia, they destroyed all of the idols and evidences that may lead to surely find out who the pagan Allah was. One important detail to mention here is that Allah was worshipped at Ka3ba shrine and at the black stone. In other words, he was represented by the black stone.
As little of evidences we also have still is the fact that Allah was worshipped by some Arab Christian sects as God the Father. What is interesting to notice, those sects were actually two cults who have derived from the main stream of Christianity. One of those cults were the Nestorians who renounced the Trinity and the Choloridians who proclaimed Mary as a "partner" in the Trinity. The Choloridians has a picture of the three gods, Allah-Isa-Marriam, hung on the Kaaba adding to the other idols.
What we can be sure of is that there is no evidence, which can link Allah biblically or historically with God and what was assumed out of speculation should be regarded as mere speculation(s).
2- Muhammad's transformation of Allah:
When Muhammad claimed prophethood, step by step, he started modifying Allah and shaping him from a polytheistic deity to a monotheistic one, who can't be associated to anything else. Once Muhammad conquered Mecca and the whole of Arabia, he destroyed all of the idols and left only one, the Ka3ba shrine and the black stone, Allah's idol. As a matter of fact Muslims still (ignorantly) bow toward Ka3ba and the Black stone in their daily prayers. Moreover, after destroying the 360 idols, Muhammad kept most of the rituals formerly used for them, except that he switched all to Allah alone. The Hajj performance is full of those rituals as witness. Interestingly, according to some records, Muhammad didn't destroy Allah-Isa-Marriam's picture. Who knows, maybe the picture is still there in the inside of the "forbidden holy" shrine!
What happened in Muhammad's time was a kind of coud-d'etat where principalities and powers of the spiritual real changed from hands to other hands. Or maybe where a government underwent a total change of policy and ruling system from a counsel to a dictatorship, where only one being has been allowed to reign instead of many!
3- The spread of Allah into the nations and Churches:
When Muslims grew in strength and became an imperialistic and conquering power they forced all the all of the conquered powers to convert to Islam and to adopt Arabic as official language. Christians did not escape, except they were allowed to remain as Christians but under some terms and conditions. One of them was to accept the name Allah as the official name for God. Such deal was very essential and important for Muslims to make Allah looks like if he was the same as the Bible God as they claim. The very corrupt, by that time, Church fell into the trap and accepted to identify God with Allah, but only in the territories under Muslims control. The event was a symbolic/spiritual fulfillment of Dan.9:27 and Mat.24:15. The situation remained the same for long centuries to the point where Allah became rooted in the remaining Churches in the Islamic world and it became like the sacred name for God. It is important to notice that until the beginning of this century, most of Western dictionaries and encyclopedias often described Allah as the God of the Muslims, making it clear that the word doesn't refer to the Bible God, Yahweh/Jehovah. In other words, the Western Churches and the whole non-Muslim world till recent decades considered Allah as name for Muslims god only.
4- The universalization of Allah as name for God:
Beginning from the 19th century, for many reasons, including religious, political and social, both Muslims and most of Christians begun to agree to use the word Allah as the Arabic term for God in disregard to all of the rational facts, which oppose it. Christian clerics have played an important role in that terrible mistake and deception. The name Allah was used for God in the first Arabic translation of the Bible and spread to other languages also. Little by little it began to spread to all dictionaries and encyclopedias and by now it became universally know as God in Arabic. Only until recently that Christians started to wake up from the abomination they themselves introduced to the Church and after they begun to realize that their dumb calculation has turned up-side-down against them. Now, voices are rising to correct the mistake and in some Muslims dominated cultures, like Turkey and Malaysia, Churches has started to get rid of the name Allah from their midst. Even in Arab countries, such voices are rising and asking to remove Allah from the Arabic Church.
However, it is very important to notice that Christians use of the word Allah as merely as generic name for God and not as His personal name. More specifically, they don't mean to consider that Allah of the Quran is God, at least, as they know Him in the Bible. The confusion is mostly in regard of linguistic/technical application and not theological/spiritual one.
THEOLOGY:
1- Allah is not Triune:
One of the primary reasons why the Muslims Allah cannot be considered as the Bible's God is because of his denial of the trinity. In Sura 112: "Proclaim, 'He is Allah and only one, the absolute. Never did he beget nor was he begotten. No one equals him.'" Allah plainly states that he is not Father, he has no Son in reference to Jesus and that there is no one who can be equaled with him in reference to the Holy Spirit. This statement goes against one of the very and even the most fundamental teachings of the Bible and God. Both in the O.T. and in the N.T. we have dozens of examples, which point to us that God is Triune or at least not one unique person in contradiction with Sura 112 (which I call the killer Sura) and the verses Suras 23:91, 4:171, 5:72-75, 19:30~35, 19:88~96, and 9:30. The biblical references that contradict: Gen.1:1-3, Gen.1:26, Gen.3:22, Gen.18-19, Exo.3:14-15, Psa.2, Psa.78, Psa.110, Pro.8:22-36, Isa.7:14, Isa.9:6-7, Isa.63:8-10, Dan.7:13-14, Zec.2-5, Mat.3:16-17, Luk.3:21-22, Luk.9:35, Luk.10:21-22, Joh.1:1-18, Joh.3:16-18, Joh.5:17-29, Joh.14:15-31, Joh.15:26, 1Jo.5:1-12, Rev.1:8, Rev.1:17-18, Rev.22:1-7.
2- His 99 names:
Muslims often boasts about the 99 names/attributes of Allah and even the Quran encourages them to recite those names. Lets take a look at some of them and see how much they fit with the Bible's God character or even Allah himself sticks with his own attributes.
a) Al-Mutakabbir: The prideful or haughty one: Allah can't be humble and meek, those are seen as weaknesses by him. In the other hand, we know from the Bible that one of God's characteristics is meekness and humility. We see that in the person of Jesus Christ and illustration as a lamb. Moreover, the Bible tell us that God hates pride and that because of pride He threw out Satan from heaven (Isa.14:12-15 and Eze.28:11-19).
b) Al-Dhaar: The afflicter or author of evil: According to the Bible, the author of evil is the devil not God. Sura 4:78 states that Allah is the source of Evil.
c) Al-Qahhaar: The oppressor: When we look at the Muslim world and its history, with no doubt we can discern that Islam is an oppressive religion because Allah urged his slaves to oppress anyone who doesn't want to submit to his will and follow his religion. The Bible God act in the opposite way. He uses us oppression as a mean of discipline for His own children when they rebel against or stray from Him. History shows us that He does it through the wicked. In other words, He allow the enemy to oppress them.
d) Al-Rahman: Although Allah claims to be gracious, in his laws we can see that grace is not a term in his dictionary or better to say it has a different meaning, which is no grace at all.
e) Al-Alim, Al-Khabir: The omniscient, all knowing: If he was so, how couldn't he know that the biblical Trinity consist in the Father-Son-Spirit rather than what the Quran confuses with Father-Son-Mary? Furthermore, how come that Allah states that the sun goes under water during the evening? Or Allah means oak tree in Hebrew?
f) Al-Awwal: The First: If Allah was from the beginning why didn't he tell us in the Quran stories, which are consistent with history and chronology? How come that he confused and mixed up between people, eras and locations?
3- Other distinctions from Yahweh/God:
Allah is not a personal God. His is singular (one/unique). He can't be felt or touched or revealed. He is abstract, somewhere and nowhere. He can't talk to people and he can't develop a personal and intimate relationship with them. He can't adopt but only accepted as master. No one can know his nature or character but only his will. Prayers to him should be addressed toward Mecca/Ka3ba. He doesn't appreciate diversity but supports legalism. He can change his mind at anytime, even if that means contradicting his own statements and laws. His love is only for those who love him first. He is the one who leads astray (deceives). His book's doctrines go against the very foundational doctrines of the Bible. He hates the Jews (Israel) and orders his followers to exterminate them. He has no patience to pay the "disobedient" during the day of judgement but asks to execute and punish them as soon as possible. His law reveal that he is a destroyer not a creator. His heaven is a resort where drunkenness and orgies are permitted. He claims that he is one of the creators. He tolerates sorcery and association with demons, even marriage with them.
The Quran and Islamic approach of Allah and his identity point to one thing: Allah can't be other than the devil/Satan whom the Bible warns us about and inform us that he is a deadly enemy to us and a very crafty one.
EXPOSING ALLAH:
MYSTERY OF ALLAH BACKWARD:
The word Allah in Arabic is composed of five characters, four are consonants and one is a vowel, as follow: Alif (c) + Lam (c) + Lam (c) + alif (v) + Ha (c) => ALLaH.
Notice that vowels are optional and the second Lam has a stress, which thicken its tone.
When we read the word Allah in Arabic backward we obtain two different words:
a- HaLaLan, which means crescent. Is that a coincidence with the theory that Allah is originally the moon god or a fact?
b- HaLaK, which means destroyer. This make more sense, since the Allah, which Islam has brought is definitely a destroyer. Islamic laws, history and facts gives us sufficient proofs in support of this theory.
ALLAH IN DEMONOLOGY:
When we check about Allah in the books of Islamic demonology we find out that he is referred to as the destroyer/perisher, exploiter of demons for men and performer of witchcraft. Some other interesting things about Allah in demonology is that his number is 66, Sura 112 is more often used in the rituals besides the Muslims prayer, facing of Ka3ba, the use of other Quranic verses and the most insightful thing is the importance of the movement of the moon and its state. Furthermore, one of Allah's names is Hu, which sounds exactly like the is the name of the Egyptian god of witchcraft/sorcery.
OTHER MYSTERIES:
Some of the other notes we collected about Allah are:
a- We already mentioned that Allah in Hebrew (a cousin language to Arabic) means oak tree. But what is more interesting is that God ordered Israel not to worship or to burn incense at oak trees (allah).
b- Akbar, one of Allah's 99 attributes is sound like the name of the Hindu god of mince. Rahman, another attributes, sounds like the name of one another Hindu god.
c- Allah Akbar read backward turns into rabaka hallak/hallalan, which means, your lord is destroyer or crescent. Muslim Mujahidin (terrorists) often use a ruben with the sign, Allahu-Akbar before committing a suicide and shout it while acting.
WOULD YOU STILL BELIEVE THEN THAT ALLAH IS GOD?

[muhammad]

Why don't you read the Qur'an and find out?

Here we go again another silly, pointless topic...

We (as Muslims) do not accept the OT/NT (in Hebrew) as the word of God as I have pointed out so many times, so all your points about the Hebrew version of Allah are invalid. Despite what you may think, we do not accept the speculation about Jesus's life (PBUH) from the wives tales and opinion of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Not to mention some of the many other authors.

You argue that Muslims worship the black stone in Mecca thinking that its Allah. Then why did Mohammad (PBUH) not pray in the direction of the black stone from the beginning? (This came later). They were still worshipping Allah the one God though. You clearly have no understanding of Islam at this moment in time so I suggest you start with a basic book.

My point about the OT is that the God described there has similar attributes to Allah, which is completely distinct from the NT. I WILL ASK ONCE AGAIN PLEASE ANSWER THIS TIME (and stick to the point) - Can you explain why the one God of love and peace killed so many people because of their behaviour in the OT?

Furthermore, please can you clarify that Jesus (PBUH) was not praying to himself in the NT, but to Yahweh!

Another question I would like an answer for: If Jesus is God then does that make Mary the mother of God? I ask this because it was one of the issues hotly debated in the meeting at Nicaea (the one bornagain doesn't know about).

By the way you must be getting really desperate to be reading the arabic of Allah backwards! What is that surposed to prove?

Thanks in advance - I look forward to some enlightenment.

[This message has been edited by muhammad (edited 11 July 2000).]

[WORD]

To muhammad:

[b]Why don't you read the Qur'an and find out?

I already did and I found out that its Allah is not Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as he claimed or Muhammad claimed about him. He is more like a pretender but with no evidences to prove his identity

Here we go again another silly, pointless topic...

And is is a very stupid common fallacy. If you're smart refute the article point by point and don't make only blind statements.

We (as Muslims) do not accept the OT/NT (in Hebrew) as the word of God as I have pointed out so many times, so all your points about the Hebrew version of Allah are invalid. Despite what you may think, we do not accept the speculation about Jesus's life (PBUH) from the wives tales and opinion of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Not to mention some of the many other authors.

Aren't you contradicting even what your book and prophet claim? Isn't it challenging us to compare our book with yours? Can you prove that the OT/NT is not the real Bible? Or was it those heretical and folk books from where your guru stole the stories the real Bible?

You argue that Muslims worship the black stone in Mecca thinking that its Allah. Then why did Mohammad (PBUH) not pray in the direction of the black stone from the beginning? (This came later).

Weren't the pagans doing it then?

They were still worshipping Allah the one God though.

Can you prove that Allah is the true God? Who is the true God and how do you know that He is the true God. Every religion claim similar thing... We need your proves and then we'll compare them with our God's who proved to excist from before time and who performed awesome miracles to show His power and to prove His devine being.

You clearly have no understanding of Islam at this moment in time so I suggest you start with a basic book.

Can we proceed to a test and let see who is the ignorant?

My point about the OT is that the God described there has similar attributes to Allah, which is completely distinct from the NT. I WILL ASK ONCE AGAIN PLEASE ANSWER THIS TIME (and stick to the point) - Can you explain why the one God of love and peace killed so many people because of their behaviour in the OT?

The god of peace and love didn't kill people, it was their rebelliousness and pride which lead them to destruction. God/Yahweh always showd them mercy but they despised Him and His warnings and He is going to repeat the same to you who still refuse to acknowledge Him. There is no contradiction between the OT and NT God, instead there are a lot between Him and your Quran's god.

Furthermore, please can you clarify that Jesus (PBUH) was not praying to himself in the NT, but to Yahweh!

This is not our topic here and I answered you in the other file.

Another question I would like an answer for: If Jesus is God then does that make Mary the mother of God? I ask this because it was one of the issues hotly debated in the meeting at Nicaea (the one bornagain doesn't know about).

This not our topic again and the answer is in the other file.

By the way you must be getting really desperate to be reading the arabic of Allah backwards! What is that surposed to prove?

It suppose to prove that your god is a deceiver. He can't even use his name in the proper order of it. Using words and sentences backward was a common practice in ancient times to communicate secret messages. Muslim witches use the Quran backward to do their demonic practices. I used that principle to check out what Allah might mean in demonology . Its not my invention but its your Mulas practice. And I can prove to you what I say from Muslim Ulama's writings and traditions.
Suppose I used trics and whatever, now can you prove to me who is Allah and what is the origin of his name. I need secular arguments, not fallacies and blind statement. If you can so show me your best, if you can't please don't bother. I am making researches about this "mystery" behind Allah's name. For five years I couldn't find any Muslim or Christian who can tell me for sure what is the origin of Allah and back it with solid proves.

[Abdur_Rahman]

The previous trinity i.e. Bornagain, Taj etc had enough of some simple and ordinary muslims argument it was to much for them so they went to their preacher and told him/her that some muslims are hammerng us what should we do, please you go and respond so here is their professor.
Just listen mate you should go and bring your Pope never mind the Archibishop of Canterburry to have any kind of rational disscussion with some young ordinary muslims.
Your predescessors could'nt argue with my collegues rationally and with evidence what makes you think you will get any where. In any case your arguments are higly flawed, illogical, irrational, and has no basis on higher sources, so there is no point in wasting any time with you for you are "deaf, dumb and blind" you will never see, even though you have apparent eyes, ears and a brain...

[a_baba]

Thanks Abdur Rahman, I will suggest him (word) to see the programme of Ahmed Diddat who have proved that Quran is the word of God, and Allah is one God from the begining to end.

The New converted Christian try to become doctor of their new found faith in Jesus (Isa) may peace be upon him, by puting stupid questions.

Brother Ahmed Diddat have already prove by his Logical argument with Dr Shurush a Christian Bible Hero and give a Hard Prove of Bible been changed many time to suit their (Christian) Society needs. Dr Morris Bokaiely have proved by using Modern science method that Quran is a Book of Sky and its belongs from God.

So my friend Word to become a Doctor of Christianity you need to Check your own New versions of Bible and find out how many times it have been changed just to suit the logic of your (New born ) christians Doctors argument before puting any stupit question regarding Holly Quran which have been revealed from God as it is and will be remaining till the end of this world as it is.

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A. Baba

[This message has been edited by a.baba (edited 12 July 2000).]

[muhammad]

Why don't you read the Qur'an and find out?

I already did and I found out that its Allah is not Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as he claimed or Muhammad claimed about him. He is more like a pretender but with no evidences to prove his identity

I have compared Allah with the God of the OT and seen a good match. Give us proof from the bible to His identity? Look we all know that God does not talk to you, otherwise you would not have made such a silly statement about Muslims worshipping the black stone previously. Keep up with the false claims!

Here we go again another silly, pointless topic...

And is is a very stupid common fallacy. If you're smart refute the article point by point and don't make only blind statements.
If its not a pointless topic then please explain the point. I can't see any point. The Jews, Catholics and Muslims all believe in the One God, who we call Allah - You are just being mischievious.

Aren't you contradicting even what your book and prophet claim?
Doesn't the Qur'an contradict the bible? Let me answer for you, yes it does.

Isn't it challenging us to compare our book with yours?
I have compared it, and it is clear that the Qur'an is the book of God and the bible is a book written by man.

Can you prove that the OT/NT is not the real Bible?
I've already given some of the history which proves that it is not the word of God - Its up to you now to prove that it is (and not the opinion of authors such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John).

Or was it those heretical and folk books from where your guru stole the stories the real Bible?
We are back in dream world again! That does make a good cover story for the christians doesn't it?

You argue that Muslims worship the black stone in Mecca thinking that its Allah. Then why did Mohammad (PBUH) not pray in the direction of the black stone from the beginning? (This came later).

Weren't the pagans doing it then?
That silly remark doesn't answer my question. If Allah is the black stone in Mecca than they would have worshipped it from the very start (they prayed towards Jerusalem to begin with). FYI Muslims pray in the direction of the black stone in Mecca, not to it.

In the bible it also describes Jesus (PBUH) praying and describes him as "prostrating" (I'll get you the reference later), does this sound like a christian praying or a Muslim?

They were still worshipping Allah the one God though.
Were the pagans in favour of the Prophet (PBUH) or against him? I've already answered your false claim about Muslims worshipping the black stone.

Can you prove that Allah is the true God? Who is the true God and how do you know that He is the true God. Every religion claim similar thing... We need your proves and then we'll compare them with our God's who proved to excist from before time and who performed awesome miracles to show His power and to prove His devine being.
People have been trying to prove the existance of God from the beginning of time. You give your proof of God first.

You clearly have no understanding of Islam at this moment in time so I suggest you start with a basic book.

Can we proceed to a test and let see who is the ignorant?
We already have, and you failed.

My point about the OT is that the God described there has similar attributes to Allah, which is completely distinct from the NT. I WILL ASK ONCE AGAIN PLEASE ANSWER THIS TIME (and stick to the point) - Can you explain why the one God of love and peace killed so many people because of their behaviour in the OT?

The god of peace and love didn't kill people, it was their rebelliousness and pride which lead them to destruction. God/Yahweh always showd them mercy but they despised Him and His warnings and He is going to repeat the same to you who still refuse to acknowledge Him. There is no contradiction between the OT and NT God, instead there are a lot between Him and your Quran's god.
Oh I see - so what you are saying is that the worldwide flood was not the work of God, but just happened by itself. I have to admit you are original!

Furthermore, please can you clarify that Jesus (PBUH) was not praying to himself in the NT, but to Yahweh!

This is not our topic here and I answered you in the other file.

Another question I would like an answer for: If Jesus is God then does that make Mary the mother of God? I ask this because it was one of the issues hotly debated in the meeting at Nicaea (the one bornagain doesn't know about).

This not our topic again and the answer is in the other file.

Sorry, but I thought that if I asked the questions twice I might get an answer. One out of two ins't bad I suppose.

By the way you must be getting really desperate to be reading the arabic of Allah backwards! What is that surposed to prove?

It suppose to prove that your god is a deceiver. He can't even use his name in the proper order of it. Using words and sentences backward was a common practice in ancient times to communicate secret messages. Muslim witches use the Quran backward to do their demonic practices. I used that principle to check out what Allah might mean in demonology . Its not my invention but its your Mulas practice. And I can prove to you what I say from Muslim Ulama's writings and traditions.
Suppose I used trics and whatever, now can you prove to me who is Allah and what is the origin of his name. I need secular arguments, not fallacies and blind statement. If you can so show me your best, if you can't please don't bother. I am making researches about this "mystery" behind Allah's name. For five years I couldn't find any Muslim or Christian who can tell me for sure what is the origin of Allah and back it with solid proves.

So what? - Haven't you got anything a little more solid than to spell things backwards? Why don't you try upside down and inside out too, that would be interesting...not.

Muhammad - reborn to tell the truth about bornagain and his disciples.

[This message has been edited by muhammad (edited 12 July 2000).]

[Nur]

Originally posted by Abdur Rahman:
The previous trinity i.e. Bornagain, Taj etc had enough of some simple and ordinary muslims argument it was to much for them so they went to their preacher and told him/her that some muslims are hammerng us what should we do, please you go and respond so here is their professor.
Just listen mate you should go and bring your Pope never mind the Archibishop of Canterburry to have any kind of rational disscussion with some young ordinary muslims.
Your predescessors could'nt argue with my collegues rationally and with evidence what makes you think you will get any where. In any case your arguments are higly flawed, illogical, irrational, and has no basis on higher sources, so there is no point in wasting any time with you for you are "deaf, dumb and blind" you will never see, even though you have apparent eyes, ears and a brain...

Salaam,
I'm afraid you're brother about the trinity thing - its now been extended by the aid of modern technology, to allow four or more heads...hehehe! WORD is only the fourth head to pop out - more are on their way, I think! Hehehehe!