“O Ye who do not believe”

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by hac


My point exactly. If you were a little more religious, do you think you might be a little more interested in forgiveness or maybe even just a little less interested in revenge?

As I've said to you before, you are entitled to your opinion, its only human, but it aint in any way shape or form justified by Islam.


Your parents are alive, so why does 1971 still touch a raw nerve? Had you lost someone close I could perhaps understand, but to me its the crux of my point:

If you and I had a higher level of faith, we might now be forgiving Pakistan - we might have even prayed for the souls that will spend an eternity in hell for their part in 1971.

To me, this is Islamic - forget whether the Pakisatnis are Muslims or not - focus on your reponse, not as a Bangali, but as a muslim who has a conscience. Hopefully we can agree on what the correct response is and what our (flawed) human response is.

Was'salam.

[/quote]


What has religiousness got to do with forgiveness? “Allaih maaf korein, not me” so if you want forgiveness then pray to Allah

It doesn’t matter if someone lost a relative in that genocide. Maybe some of us will speak out against wrong doing regardless of whether we lost someone. Are you really that selfish and only think its ok to grieve for yourself?

What do you know about faith, its inside everyone so how ths fcuk do you think you van make judgements on this?

And why should I respond as a muslim, not as a human or Bengali? My response is justified and true and you cant handle it as a paki ass kisser. You just want to erase what your “muslim” brothers did. If you love them so much why don’t you fcuk off back there?

The only flaw is in your head.

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by Star
i'm not sure why if someone was more religous say, they should be willing to pray for those who committed such gross attrocities? what have they done to deserve our prayers?

at best i would adopt a position of indifference whereby i would leave it to Allah to decide upon their fate.. but surely if we know someone to have committed an act of evil - a wilful and severe act of disobedience of the commands/teachings of Allah - and where we have no knowledge that they regret their actions and have repented even... i'm not sure what grounds we would have to pray for their forgiveness?? why would we be praying on behalf of oppressors?

the dua "Allah forgive those who murdered and raped those innocent men/women/children in 1971" just doesn't seem
justifiable?


i don't know maybe i've misunderstood the point you are making...

What a nice prayer you have come up with. Now its just a matter of time before certain ass kissers make it into a real prayer.

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by Ms-Bored

I agree with Mac, what happend, so happened, we dont know who was to blame, lots of Bengali's got killed in 1971, but it wasnt based on Islam... it was based on getting Bangladesh to become indipendant!!

most of the ppl died cos of Culture and not cos of Religion, but im sure that the woman/children/men died during that period would go to heaven, but we just cant say that!!

Besides most of the Pakistani's are Shia Muslims and not Sunni... so therefore they have a different prospective on Islam... we just dont know cos we didnt see what was happening!! and there is no noway in turning back the clock to see what actually happened!!

its all propaganda, and speculation, and i think its part of history and should be remembered and not attacking by saying that the pakistani's killed most of the bengali's we should try to forget and forgive!! But Bangladesh is my parents origin "Maa Amar Mati" and i should respect!

Ms. Bored
x x x x x

Well maybe you should read abit of the history and background before you say we dont know of whose to blame. Then you will be able to say smoething enlightened. And not all pakis are shia, maybe they are in merseyside but in other places they are a minority.

Here is a very brief overview:

Political and economic deprivation of the Bengalees prompted Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the Father of the Nation, to put forward in 1966 his historic six points, the "Magna Carta" which in effect structured the foundation for East Pakistan's future independence.

The War of Liberation
In the 1970 elections, even though the Awami League emerged as the largest party in Pakistan Parliament, it was not allowed to form the government by the ruling military junta. In the backdrop of a non-cooperation movement launched against the military regime by Awami League.

Bangabandhu declared at a historic public meeting held at Ramna Race Course (renamed Suhrawardy Uddyan) on 7 March, 1971, attended by around 2 million people, "The struggle this tune is the struggle for freedom, the struggle this tune is the struggle for independence." It was a defacto declaration of independence.

Thus in a preplanned manner on 25th March 1971. The Pakistan army embarked on what may be termed as history's worst genocide. A military crackdown was ordered, and Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujib was arrested and taken away to West Pakistan. But just before he was arrested he sent out a call for the liberation war to begin. Known as the Declaration of (lie War of Independence, this hurriedly written historic document read as follows:

"Pak Army suddenly attacked EPR Base at Pilkhana, Rajarbagh Police Line and killing citizens. Street battles are going on in every street of Dacca. Chittagong. I appeal to the nations of the world for help. Our freedom fighters are gallantly fighting with the enemies to free the motherland. I appeal and order you all in the name of Almighty Allah to fight to the last drop of blood to liberate the country. Ask Police, EPR, Bengal Regiment and Ansar to stand by you and to fight. No compromise. Victory is ours. Drive out the enemies from the holy soil of motherland. Convey this message to all Awami League leaders, workers and other patriots and lovers of freedom. May Allah bless you. Joy Bangla".

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by hac


Salam

Apologies for the delay in reply:

Look at it from the another view - focus on your actions, and the benefit to you, rather than the benefit to the oprressors:

Would the dua "O Allah, we ask you to bring repentence and understanding into the breasts of those oprresors, so that we may all recognise each others as brothers, and benefit from your infinate mercy..." - would such a dua have any impact? .

"War is not the answer, for only love can conquor hate"

Why should we look at it from any other point? Why should we pray for wrong doers? Why can they not have some decency in the first place? Why do you cover for them? Let them take responsibility for their actions.

Why should we be brother? You sicken me. Anyway we know what kind of love you are capable of giving, we saw it in 71.

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by jodyraye
Hi hac,
You wrote,"-we might have even prayed for the souls that will spend an eternity in hell for their part in 1971."
First, What good would our prayers do for those who are damned to hell forever? Those who commited genocide etc. in BD sealed their own fate. Had they believed in the Qur'an they would have adhered to Allah's voice. If they were IN FACT Muslim they would have been aware of Allah's presence even while they committed their atrocities. They are the ones who should have read the beautiful passages you quoted.

Secondly as far as the song from the Vietnam days that only love can conquer hate---well I think there were no other people who were MORE innocent and full of love than the Bangladeshi's that were violated by hate from those who "called themselves" Muslims.

Now I think we should pray for the survivors who have been unable to express their terror and grief for so many years. They have been in shock and disbelief as a nation and people. Furthermore they have not had the communication means nor the wealth to speak out as a nation and as a people as have other groups that were violated. I also think we should pray for guidance in how we can help to heal the wounds inflicted such a short (in a historical sence) time ago.

Empathy for the innocent should not be equated as lack of forgiveness for the oppressors. And most of the people here were actively concerned with the victims. I don't know if that's what you insinuated or not, but I did not see you write or suggest that we pray for the victims.

Thanks for expressing your point of view.

I totally agree with you here.

[SNOOP_KUTHA]

hold up a second


i skimmed through the posts and the word "forgive" kept croppin up, your actually sayin we should forgive the pakis?


naa mate, to forgive is to forget, and if you forget something like 1971 then your doin a terrible injustice to the people who were victims in 1971

its ok not to hate the paki's...thats upto every individual to decide what they think about them, but forgiving them is a whole other issue, i dont think we should forgive them, purely for the reason that its bang out of order on the victims of 1971


it doesnt matter who;s of a more higher religious mentality, and if that enables you to pray for these paki people to be shown mercy...then thats your perogative...but me for one dont think theres anything wrong with NOT forgiving them....but there is something wrong with forgiving them

[Bang_Ali]

Originally posted by hac



Yes, I agree, but that didn't happen - so what now? The ball is in our court - what do we do? Allah swt in Qur'an suggests that we can the right to retribution. This is normal and I have no problems with it. But Qur'an also teaches us that at a higher level of belief, we (not the opressors) can earn the love of Allah swt by forgiving - it's a central theme of most religions. By forgiving we don't let the oprressors off - those with faith realise that Allah swt dispenses ultimate justice - we rise above those human emotion of revenge and anger - we therefore end the cycle of hate.

So does the big G not love us anyway? Do we have to forgive these sh*t heads to gain the big Gs love? Are you being serious here? Please tell me your joking.