A Bangali Perspective...

[yayati]

Jaanam : You have given us a comprehensive list of excuses. But, what is the bottom line?

We must ask what are you excusing yourself from?

Bottom line - 3 million banglas killed, largely hindus, largely poor (some intellectuals, muslims and wealthy people too). 30 000 + women raped. The vast majority of these people had no firearms or weapons with which to defend themselves.

Now, can a few words on a computer screen erase this bottom line with sweet words and offer of blame to someone else? No. It cannot and it never will.

The issue isn't who is to blame here. We should not start pointing fingers, although, we do not look at the economic situation of the time to try a killer and rapist in court. We rely on the evidences from his atrocities. Similarly, try not to look to India for the 3 million deaths caused, for surely Pakistani "Jawans" killed and those people.

Again, we are not denying India's involvement in the Liberation struggle but remember the fault can be traced back to Pakistan (Western Portion). You were living democracy yet you would not let a Bengali ascend to the highest civilian rank, you did not apportion wealth correctly nor did you treat your fellow Pakistani's like brothers. You even left a "B" out of the name "Pakistan" itself. No matter. Let us look at India. What was her role in this?

She was not involved. Her generals might have liked pakistan to be seperated in order to feel secure but surely India did not instigate this war. Indeed, it was the Western portion of Pakistan. Needless to say when 10 million people flee for the lives, and are so fearful that they leave all their possessions and worldly goods behind to live in refugee camps in India, when they are fearful of the family and the killings, then India did the right and noble thing by considering it as an declaration of WAR, an ACT of terror and of bestial nature.

India could have been destroyed, Russians only backed India on a diplomatic level. Huffing and puffing out loud but secretly it told the Indian government that if America attacked it cannot take part in a war. It had only started relations with India and it was fearful of the impact of War with the US. The US did not intervene only because it too feared the impact of War with Russia and it made overtures that it would help Pakistan and played the role of the Peacock by sending cruise ships (?) to the indian ocean. Nixon wanted to go to war with India but his right hand man (a jewish guy) stopped him...Again China (an ally of Pakistan like USA) said it too would step in and have a war with India if India dared intervene and make WAR with Pakistan. But you know what? India was gutsy. Indira Gandhi was gutsy. She did thr right thing, something her father couldn't do, she had "balls" to do something which I think no other leader would have been able to pull off.

She won that war. Bangladesh won that war. The Bangladeshi people won that war. The war of independance. The first Humanitarian WAR. It was not for oil. It was not for land. It was for the frightened and cowering people who had been thoroughly downtrodden and beaten to a pulp. It was against pure evil, PAKISTAN.

[jaanam]

So you are saying that there was no fault on part of bengalis???

THEY WERE THE ONES [especially Left wingers and AL - the mother of evil] HAD DECIDED THAT THEY WILL NOT LEARN URDU, A COMMON MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION, WHEN OTHERS WERE WILLING TO DO THE SAME.

IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT BEFORE 1971, THERE WAS VERY MUCH SUPPORT FOR PAKISTAN AND MANY BENGALIS DIDN'T EVEN SUPPORT THE "INDIANIZATION" PLAN OF MUJIB. THEIR MINDS WERE POISONED AGAINST PAKISTAN [LEADING TO BREAKUP] BY THE LEFT-WING AL PROFESSORS, TEACHERS, ETC.ETC.

AND BEFORE YOU CONSIDER MUJIB AN ANJEL, HE WAS SAYING E. PAKISTAN [OR BENGAL] WILL "SECEDE" FROM PAKISTAN ON HIS MARCH 1st, 1971 ADDRESS IN DHAKA!!!!!!!!!!

Bengalis recognized their mistakes too late BUT THEY STILL GOT RID OF MUJIB AND HIS ANTI-BD, PRO-INDIAN PARTY WITHIN 3-4 YEARS.

Both bhutto and mujib [and now their daughters] HAVE WRECKED Pakistan and Bangladesh like no one has done it EVER BEFORE.........

[Amar-Sonar-Bangla]

Originally posted by jaanam
So you are saying that there was no fault on part of bengalis???

THEY WERE THE ONES [especially Left wingers and AL - the mother of evil] HAD DECIDED THAT THEY WILL NOT LEARN URDU, A COMMON MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION, WHEN OTHERS WERE WILLING TO DO THE SAME.

IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT BEFORE 1971, THERE WAS VERY MUCH SUPPORT FOR PAKISTAN AND MANY BENGALIS DIDN'T EVEN SUPPORT THE "INDIANIZATION" PLAN OF MUJIB. THEIR MINDS WERE POISONED AGAINST PAKISTAN [LEADING TO BREAKUP] BY THE LEFT-WING AL PROFESSORS, TEACHERS, ETC.ETC.

AND BEFORE YOU CONSIDER MUJIB AN ANJEL, HE WAS SAYING E. PAKISTAN [OR BENGAL] WILL "SECEDE" FROM PAKISTAN ON HIS MARCH 1st, 1971 ADDRESS IN DHAKA!!!!!!!!!!

Bengalis recognized their mistakes too late BUT THEY STILL GOT RID OF MUJIB AND HIS ANTI-BD, PRO-INDIAN PARTY WITHIN 3-4 YEARS.

Both bhutto and mujib [and now their daughters] HAVE WRECKED Pakistan and Bangladesh like no one has done it EVER BEFORE.........

The ravings of a Pakistani lunatic.

[Amar-Sonar-Bangla]

You've a very entertaining and warped view of history. Not suprising given the your stance on the Bangladeshi Liberation War and what became in fact, the greatest ever (to date ) defeat for Pakistani arms, in the history of the subcontinent.


I think Yayati handled your poor and at times incoherant ideological surge, rather well. And oh yeah, using caplocks means shouting, in the internet realm. Bad form, my dear fellow.



Musharraf expressed Pak regrets at what happened in 1971. He even went and wrote those comments in guest book at "shaheed minar".


lol


What does the word unequivical mean to you?


General Musharaf's words were full to brim with the usual Pakistani double-talk and weasel words of Pakistani condolence.



I do not wish to go into the details of this farcical comedy act. However, why was the word 'excesses' used instead of what it really was, ie genocide?


How can we (ie the implication was both Bangladesh and Pakistan were to blame)bury the hatched, when it was you Pakistani's who were the perpetrators of that dark episode? The ones who truely besmirched the name of Islam, with your actions, destroying any hope of a lasting Islamic brotherhood in the Subcontinent.



And why are the words Shaheed Minar highlighted. The victims of the 1971 genocide are martyrs to the Bangali ppl and nation. Hindu/Muslim/Class or gender are irrelevant. No matter what revisionist Pakistani's may say.




BUT AN AL SUPPORTER LIKE YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND OTHER VIEWPOINTS AND BLINDLY SUPPORT HASINA EVEN WHEN SHE SAYS **** ABOUT BANGLADESH LIKE IT IS AN ISLAMIC TERRORIST STATE WHOSE ARMED FORCES [PLUS ISLAMIC FORCES] SUPPORT AL-QAEDA....


lol


I've posted in excess of 1,500 posts on this forum. Please show me a post where I have shown overt preference or support for the Awami League (or indeed any other political party or entity in Bangladesh). I prefer not to encumber myself with the baggage of enforced ideological commitment. Or ondhobokhto blind support.



THERE WAS INDIAN RAW INVOLVEMENT THAT WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN BREAK-UP OF PAKISTAN [THE BREAKING AWAY OF E. PAKISTAN]....



This is largely irrelevant given the genocidal backdrop to the 1971 conflict.


It was Pakistan, which was undeniably reasponsible for the deaths in Bangladesh and the flight of the 10 million refugees.


Pakistan caused the crisis to develope and mature, India merely intervened, when the crisis overspilled into their sovereign territory.


In fact, had not India intervened, then only Allah (SWT) knows how many more innocent Bangali men, women and children would have lost their lives, due to Pakistani barbarity.



I am not trying to absolve Pak army of any responsibility BUT BENGALIS ARE VERY "EMOTIONAL" AND INDIANS TOOK GREAT ADVANTAGE OF THAT.


You are attempting to absolve the Pak forces and state, of their overwhelming responsibility for the pre-meditated and planned genocide of an entire ppl's.



As for Bangali's being 'emotional'...........do my fellow B.Commer's remember the thousands of Pakistani's dancing in the streets with their cardboard rockets and throwing firecrackers, when Pakistan exploded its nukes? Emotional or what! .....and this is the party-piece....the same ppl then blamed and largely acquiesced, to the removal of the same Nawaz Sharif administration because of the hardships caused by the explosions of the very same nukes!!


Talk about gratitude!!!



In any case, I'm glad you've posted, as B.Commer's can see the Pakistani/Islamist viewpoint in it's monstrous and deviant clarity. Brotherhood between Bangladesh and Pakistan.....me don't think so, mate!!

[yayati]

Originally posted by jaanam
So you are saying that there was no fault on part of bengalis???

Mainly, yes. We were reasonable, we did not commit genocide. You committed Genocide against an a largely unarmed populace with all the might of your conventional weapons.

Once you were entered into a War with India, your Pakistan army gave up in a matter of weeks. This is because Pakistani men (Western portion) were being killed in some numbers for the first time and not some dirty black bangla who has stupid hindu superstsitions still lurking in his heart somehwere .

THEY WERE THE ONES [especially Left wingers and AL - the mother of evil] HAD DECIDED THAT THEY WILL NOT LEARN URDU, A COMMON MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION, WHEN OTHERS WERE WILLING TO DO THE SAME.

So if British government told me to learn French because we are in the European Union and I had said : "No", does it give the state the right to kill me and 3 million other people, some who had similar feelings and some who weren't really involved in my decision making capacity?

If I didn't tie my shoelaces properly or in accordance to their way, does the Pakistani government and it's military have the right to kill me?? Am I being obstinate or is Pakistani government being slightly paagal?? hmmmmm

IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT BEFORE 1971, THERE WAS VERY MUCH SUPPORT FOR PAKISTAN AND MANY BENGALIS DIDN'T EVEN SUPPORT THE "INDIANIZATION" PLAN OF MUJIB. THEIR MINDS WERE POISONED AGAINST PAKISTAN [LEADING TO BREAKUP] BY THE LEFT-WING AL PROFESSORS, TEACHERS, ETC.ETC.

AND BEFORE YOU CONSIDER MUJIB AN ANJEL, HE WAS SAYING E. PAKISTAN [OR BENGAL] WILL "SECEDE" FROM PAKISTAN ON HIS MARCH 1st, 1971 ADDRESS IN DHAKA!!!!!!!!!!

What's your point? No one ever said Mujib was an angel. He had the right to protest and make argumentation for what he thought was right. Just as you have the right to speak and hold your views, the same right should be afforded to him.

If you talk and you happen to say, Tony Blair is not doing the right thing by going into Iraq, does the government has the right to imprision you, to cast you away??

Bengalis recognized their mistakes too late BUT THEY STILL GOT RID OF MUJIB AND HIS ANTI-BD, PRO-INDIAN PARTY WITHIN 3-4 YEARS.

Both bhutto and mujib [and now their daughters] HAVE WRECKED Pakistan and Bangladesh like no one has done it EVER BEFORE.........

You know what? I don't care for the geographical entity named: "Pakistan". It is nothing to me, it is not a home, it is not part of me. I care less and less about Bangladesh. If I were to go to Bangladesh with no money, then people would spit on me and do the most vilest things to me.

No. I don't care for either of those two places. I care for the people who are living such depraved lives within it's borders. I care for the poor and the hardworking, I care for the middle class who are struggling to hold onto right ideals, I care for the people who struggle to still do the right things, who still do not take short-cuts to power and wealth. I do not care for the Mullah's or the Madrashah's.

The only way South Asia will be able to help these people is by co-operating with each other, respecting each other and being respectful of differences and having tolerance towards people who might not share their exact same view. The only way is make south asia better is for hope to grow of peace, for kindness and tolerance towards others, by economic advancement through co-operation and dialogue.

These are all nice sounding words, in reality, no one has the guts to let go of power, of fear, of ridicule.

[jaanam]

The only way South Asia will be able to help these people is by co-operating with each other, respecting each other and being respectful of differences and having tolerance towards people who might not share their exact same view. The only way is make south asia better is for hope to grow of peace, for kindness and tolerance towards others, by economic advancement through co-operation and dialogue.

Well I am not the one who is trying to create an ideological enemy #1 Pakistan in name of Bangladeshi freedom...

[MaKe_iT_LEgAL]

Originally posted by samtel
You did not reply - Is it necessary to take Arabic names to become Muslims ??? Then why don't you talk in Arabic and leave the Beautiful Bengali language for Hindus who have nurtured and made it rich for centuries. If you guys call yourself bengalies then be a Bengali. I know islam is as Arab religion and you cannot hide it by using hyperbloic languages. Is there any Bangladeshi who can speak bengali properly, I doubt. Call yourself Bangladeshi not Bengali. We the Hinus are the Bengali.......

so sue me.





i dont know why i insult myself by tryin to even reason with some one like you.