A Bangali Perspective...

[Hasan_Ali_Imam]

Br. ASB,

Assalamu Alaikum.

Any further thoughts on this issue?

Wassalam
Hasan

[Mazed_London]

A fact that people like me and many others and inshallah soon all the muslims in bangladesh and pakstan will realize that the coz of the problem in 1971 was nationalism and it is the same nationailsm which is dividing us today from a syelheti and a person who lives in dahka its the same nationalism which divides us from one another

they will realize that nationalism is not a bond rather its a way to divide the muslims from its real bond and its purpose in life

and they will realize that the only true bond is islam coz, it gives a view point in life under every one can unite and from it comes a system to regulate life affairs

and its the true unity..

and Allahs light can nobody stop it...........

[sharaf]

History Repeats Itself. this is a statement that is supported by Quran itself. But Quran wants us to read history, analyze it and work for better future.

I think we have a problem in analyzing the history of 1971. coz, any analysis which holds Islam for problem is wrong. Islam is solution not a problem.

I think most people wrongly assume that PAK army was the symbol of Islam and all their actions were assigned to Islam. This very assumption is wrong. We have to destroy the assumption before drawing conclusion.

Usually when discussing 1971 we all agree on a wrong assumption (PAK is an Islamic Army) and draw the most Dangerous conclusion (Islam in Bangladesh will shed again 3 million blood!!!) I think Shaitan was very successful in hardwiring the mindset of those ppl to reject Islam by raising the emotion towards raped Bangladeshi women.

[Hasan_Ali_Imam]

Br. ASB,

Assalamu Alaikum.

Any further thoughts? You had made some points which I requested evidence and proof for. Would appreciate the response.

Wassalam
Hasan

[Amar-Sonar-Bangla]

Salaam Brother Hassan,


I hope you are well and in good imaan.


As I read you're reply, I could not help but note your basic lack of knowledge regarding Bangladeshi history, particularly the period of the War of Liberation (muktijuddho). Else you would not have said some of the things you unfortunately did.



When looking at history, it is necessary to look at both sides.



Yes, let's look at things from the National Socialist (Nazi) and Stalinist points of view. I'm sure they were 'compelled' to commit their heinous crimes.


Funny where you're Islamist priorities lie. lol


Objectivity is all very well. However, we are dealing with established historical facts not heresay or slander.



***



I have not spread the blame as you assert. What I said was that I have heard of the atrocities done by Pakistani soldiers, i.e. rape, torture etc. I have also heard that 3million Bengalis were killed in 9 months..but couldn’t confirm this. I had also heard of Bengalis killing Biharis….again I have not confirmed this.




I'm glad that, unlike the typical Islamist, you at least have the presence of mind and personal integrity to keep an open mind regarding the dark underside of Political Islam. Most Islanmist's simply refuse to believe or undermine and marginalize information ie. mass murder, rape and looting, which characterised our nations independance war.



***


As for numbers, there are varying estimates. From Proff. Rummel's conservative 1,500,000 to R. Johan's 3,000,000. The numbers are not that important. Even one death is one death too many. What is important is that many many ppl perished and many others faced torture, injury and violation at the hads of our fellow 'Muslim countrymen'.



As R.J. Rummel (Chapter 8: 'Pakistan: The Cutthroat State')writes,



The human death toll over only 267 days was incredible. Just to give for five out of the eighteen districts some incomplete statistics published in Bangladesh newspapers or by an Inquiry Committee, the Pakistani army killed 100,000 Bengalis in Dacca, 150,000 in Khulna, 75,000 in Jessore, 95,000 in Comilla, and 100,000 in Chittagong. For eighteen districts the total is 1,247,000 killed.



This was an incomplete toll, and to this day no one really knows the final toll. Some estimates of the democide [Rummel's 'death by government'] are much lower -- one is of 300,000 dead -- but most range from 1 million to 3 million. ... The Pakistani army and allied paramilitary groups killed about one out of every sixty-one people in Pakistan overall; one out of every twenty-five Bengalis, Hindus, and others in East Pakistan.


If the rate of killing for all of Pakistan is annualized over the years the Yahya martial law regime was in power (March 1969 to December 1971), then this one regime was more lethal than that of the Soviet Union, China under the communists, or Japan under the military (even through World War II). (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 331).



In Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Susan Brownmiller also expounds upon the mass rape of Bangali women by Pakistani forces and their Islamist agent's,




Brownmiller likened the 1971 events in Bangladesh to the Japanese rapes in Nanjing and German rapes in Russia during World War II. ... [/b]200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women (three sets of statistics have been variously quoted) were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Moslems, [/b] reflecting the population of Bangladesh, but Hindu and Christian women were not exempt. ... Hit-and-run rape of large numbers of Bengali women was brutally simple in terms of logistics as the Pakistani regulars swept through and occupied the tiny, populous land ... (p. 81).



The Pakistani/Islamic Ideological Motivation for the Mass Rape Programme



The West Pakistani Panjabi-dominated military considered Bangali’s an inferior race. They were ‘hindu’s’ and ‘black monkey’s’ to be dominated and ‘purified’ . The Pakistani theory held that the native Bangali’s were being egged on and incited to rebel and rise up by India and native Bangali hindu’s (an idea still propagated by fug on B.Com)


The mass rape of ordinary women, from every strata of society, the villiage girl , the university student or the mother at home was ‘deliberately planned by the West Pakistani’s in a deliberate effort to create a new (and more Islamic) race and to dilute the (inferior) Bangali propensity toward nationalism.’

(Source: ‘To create a New Race’: Jill Tweedie New York Times Mar, 5 1972)



***


Let us not forget that 1971, was a case of genocide,the systematic destruction of an entire ppl's, culture and civilisation ie. the Bangali's. Perpetrated by the Pakistani armed forces, bureaucracy, civilian population (either directly or through their passiveness) and abetted by the hypocritical Muslim Ummah....who throughout cheerleaded for the Pakistani's and gave their actions the stamp of Islamic authenticity and legitimacy.




2. You said that 95% of the rapes, murders were done by Pakistani forces. Can you direct me to the source of that statistic and how they arrive that that figure.



Bro, please! The war was fought on Bangladeshi soil....it doesn't take a genius to figure that the overwhelming number of casualties and atrocities were carried out by the Pakistani army and it's hireling traitor Razakaar's (who were mainly Urdu-speaking Bihari's who unfortunaately put their Islamic identity (Islamic brotherhood?) before their cultural Bangali credo and turned bloodily upon their peaceful Bangali neighbours). A modern army against an unarmed and largely peaceful populace.




If you are not blaming Islam (and I don’t think you are), then do you agree that If Islam was practised as stated in the Quran and the way of the Prophet, then Pakistanis would have treated the Bengalis better?


Who is blaming Islam? However, Political Islam (ie. that being peddled world-wide today. Totally divorced from the needs of ordinary Muslim's, from historical fact and social dynamics) on the other hand......



So long as we stick to Ibadath and certain socio-cultural facet's of Islam, then I think most Bangali's would agree that Islam is very important to them personally. Anything more than that.... and we must remember that Bangladesh has been a moderate and largly apolitical (with regards to Islam), since independance.





May I also state that ‘Bengali’ is not one unified group. The Sylheti brothers believe that the non-Sylhetis look down on them (and they are correct, I have witnessed anti-Sylheti racism amongst non-Sylhetis), and there are confirmed reports of the Chittagong Hill Tract peoples being oppressed by there own Bangladeshi Govt!


Specious point.



When was the last time you heard of Sylhetti's taking up arms and massacring Dhakaiya's? lol


Resentment there undoubtedly is (the Syhetti lanuage is a unique language with it's own distinctive Nagri script and there are cultural differences) however, outright political instability ala Pakistan (for example in Baluchistan, Balwaria and Karachi)..... I think not. Not with regards to regional feelings anyhow.




Bangladesh is one of the most homogenous countries, in terms of language, culture and outlook, in the world. I believe some 98% of the population see themselves as Bangali's (Wilkepedia World Encyclopedia). Hence our countrie's hitherto secular reliance on Bangla language, culture and nationalism, as the driving-force of national identity. While, giving Islam it's rightful and honoured place in the personal life of the Bangali.


Sheikh Mujib was undoubtedly in a weak position in the run-up to the 1971 conflict. What with the constant threat of military intervention and consequent bloodshed. Right till the last he had hopes of becoming the Prime Minister of a United Pakistan. Which he was entitled to, having won the elections. Therefore, his honeyed wordsregarding 'brotherhood' must be seen in this conrtext.


Lest we forget, Mujib was interned for 'subversive activities' during the earlier 'Agartala Conspiracy case,' and so his 'loyalty' to the unequal and discriminatory Pakistani state was always suspect at best.



I may be mistaken. However, I always thought 'Islamic Brotherhood' to be based on equality, justice and the truth. This being the case:



1. Why has Pakistan failed to make an unequivical and official state apology to Bangali's for the genocide of 1971?


2. Why has Pakistan failed to repay the more than $3 billion worth of assets stolen from Bangladesh? Our ppl's rightful inheritance.


3. Why has not even one Pakistani General, officer or soldier been held responsible and punished for murder, rape and theft committed during the Liberation War.


4. Why are Pakistani's taught fabricated history at schhol that it was Bangali treachery, instigated by Indian 'infiltrator's' that lead to the 1971 conflict?



Wow, this Islamic Brotherhood between Bangladesh and Pakistan is really equal, even-handed and just!



I know, let's have more of this wonderful 'brotherhood'....



Or perhap's we should aspire to earn the brotherly appreciation of our fellow Muslim countries. Oh wait, where these not the same nations, that virtually to the last one, supported Pakistan diplomatically, militarily and financially, during the genocide of Bangali's?



Even after the liberation, these nations refused to accord diplomatic recognition to Bangladesh. It was not until 1974 (after Sheikh Mujib was forced to come to terms with Pakistan, due to pressure from our fellow Muslim nations ) that this unconstructive attitude was lifted. So much for brotherhood.



The above situation is among the primary reasons why I believe Islam shall not rise again, in the form ithas in the past, in Bangladesh. A case of once burnt, twice shy. The Bangali ppl are intimately aware of exactly what transpires when Islam and politics come together. Every victim of 1971 and those who do not allow time to dull their memory are a shining beacon unto the inalienable truth.


I believe that Islam as a political ideology, needs to be shackled and fettered in democracy and practiced and utilised by responsible civil society, should it again come to the fore in Bangladesh. In addition, I believe this to be the view of most ordinary Bangali's.


Joy Bangla!


Wasalaam

[Amar-Sonar-Bangla]

Originally posted by sharaf


I think Shaitan was very successful in hardwiring the mindset of those ppl to reject Islam by raising the emotion towards raped Bangladeshi women.

Thanks for showing us the callous, insensitive and agenda-driven mindset of the typical Islamist, Sharaf.



I really couldn't have shown your kind up, better myself.

[samtel]

If you are bangali, then why don't you give Bengali names instad of Arabic names? I think you guys are still slave of Arabs. Why these Arabic/Persian names like shamshul, khaleda, hasina, Muzibur, Zia and so on..... Put Bengali names like Nazrul Islam did - Kalyani, sabyasachi etc.

Is it manadtory in Islam to be slave of Arabs??? and forget your own culture ??