Bangali brothers and sisters Alslamo Alaykom wa rahmat allah-
I am chocked, angered and disgusted. I received this e-mail today from Muslim brothers in Canada. I live in Australia and this e-mail has been circulated world wide thru Muslims mail group. Muslims in USA, Canada, Europe and Australia are in shock and disbelieve. How come you let this lady get out of your country?
The e-mail I received:
CBC will not dare inviting a holocaust denier and promote his book under the pretext of "Freedom of Expression", but it had no compunction in inviting Taslima Nasrin, whom in its own CBC website it refers to as the “female Salman Rushdie”, with the full knowledge that she would hurt the feelings and sentiments of millions of Muslims. Freedom of expression does not extend to hatemongering, but when it comes to Muslims, it seems it is fair game.
There is a pattern of Muslim-bashing developing at "Hot Type" . Previously, Bernard Lewis, the pro-Israeli activist camouflaged as a "scholar" of Islam was interviewed, giving him uninterrupted air time to attack Arabs and Muslims. This time, Taslima Nasrin. At neither occasion, were Muslim scholars invited for a rebuttal. This is tantamount to Hate Crime against Muslims by the CBC.
Perhaps "Hot Type" host Evan Solomon being Jewish, believes in the Talmudic tradition “A man is not guilty of murder if he causes a poisonous snake to kill a gentile. The snake should be executed for murder, while the man goes free.” (Sanhedrin 76b on Exodus 21:12). So Taslima Nasrin was the snake he brought to attack Muslims and their beloved Holy Prophet.
In the interview, the evil woman slanders the Holy Prophet as a "child abuser", saying he married Ayesha (mis-spelled in the transcript as Isha) at age six. In fact her age was at least 15 or 16 (pls. see attached file Ayesha'age).
By copy of this letter to the Ombudsman, Mr. Davis Bazay, we demand that CBC desists from this sort of insidious Muslim-bashing, bordering hate crime against Muslims. CBC's credibility as a reputable and dependable media source is at great risk, if this kind of programming continues.
Engr. Meer Sahib
Evan Solomon: First of all, Taslima, I'm glad you're here. Last time you were in Canada, I understand you were at Concordia University and what happened?
Taslima Nasrin: Many students who were Muslim, they protested. They didn't like me to say anything against Islam so and I had to stop. The police took me away from the room.
ES: This was your first experience in Canada?
ES: So it's better this time?
ES: All right, now most people who have heard of you in North America have heard that moniker that I'm sure you loathe now: the female Salman Rushdie. But this is because of this book here, Shame, that you wrote. I think you wrote it in '93, or it came out in '93 and then the mullahs in Bangladesh declared a fatwa.
TN: Yeah, the mullahs issued fatwa against me, is not for this book. This book was banned by the government -
ES: The Bangladeshi government -
TN: The Bangladeshi government banned Shame but I didn't write anything against Islam in Shame. The fundamentalists issued fatwa against me because of my other books, what I wrote in other books against Islam and I criticized Islam and Islamic fundamentalists.
ES: So by the time you wrote Shame, you were not a popular person to the mullahs?
TN: No, no, no, not at all.
ES: You were a newspaper columnist and you were writing controversial columns in Bangladesh about women that were critical, also critical of Islam and I thought, you have to [correct], that in Bangladesh there's a secular government.
TN: Secular government? No.
ES: That one, that it supposedly that there's elections, there's some kind of free speech there. But I guess there's not free speech against the religion of Islam.
TN: You know in Bangladesh, the state religion is Islam so it's not at all a secular government and we have seven centuries Shari'a law so there is no uniform civil code in which women can get equality and justice. So it's not a secular government.
ES: Nothing at all? There's no separation between church and state?
TN: No separation between state and religion. But you know in 1971, when we got independence, that time the we had secularism but that secularism [unclear] -- secularism in Indian sub-continent means that you know equal rights for the, for all the people who have different faith. But secularism doesn't mean we doubt religion or [sounds like] no religion in Indian sub-continent.
ES: This is interesting. In other words, you're allowed to practice in whatever sect you are, but there is still a state religion which you cannot criticize?
TN: Yeah in Bangladesh now, yeah. Then afterwards, secularism was removed and state religion is Islam, state religion became Islam you know so that the minority community was Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, they don't have much rights there in Bangladesh because if state religion is Islam, then you know only Muslims can get opportunity.
ES: But is it, doesn't Islam in the Koran, at least in my understanding of it, isn't it supposed to protect those who practice other religions outside of Islam? And for centuries it did?
ES: Jews, Christians that lived under Islamic law throughout history have been protected?
TN: I don't think so because you know the non-Muslim had to pay tax, kind of tax because they are not Muslim in Islamic countries under Islam.
ES: But still allowed to practice.
TN: They are in Bangladesh they are allowed to practice, it is true, but you know still they are not allowed to criticize the Islam because Islam is the state religion. And also it is written in the Koran that if you are not Muslim, or if you are you know disbeliever, then you should be killed. Islam divides the world in two parts: Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam. Dar al-Harb means land of infidels and Dar al-Islam means land of Islam. So it's the Muslim's duty to make, to kill all the infidels or make them convert and to make all the land Dar al-Islam, means land of Islam.
ES: What about the idea of tolerance?
TN: There is no tolerance. There is no tolerance in Islam because, you know if it is, if a law say, because a law says that disbelievers would go to hell if you are a Muslim but you reject Islam and if you deny Allah or Prophet Mohammad, then you should be killed. You know fundamentalists issued fatwa against me. Many people, the so-called liberal Muslims, say that: no, it's not real Islam, Islam is for peace, Islam doesn't allow any fatwa. Actually, it is not true. The fundamentalists are following, are practicing Islam correctly. They issued fatwa against me because it is written in the Koran that [sounds like] apposite must be killed.
ES: But this is interesting because you have for years made this case that one ought not to talk about Muslims and fundamentalist Muslims as different, as fundamentally different groups. They are the same.
TN: They are not the same. Some Muslims are liberal, they are more moderate. It doesn't mean that Islam is liberal or moderate. Some Muslims believe in equality and justice you know, they think that women should live as human beings.
TN: Some Muslims believe that, yeah, because women are not treated as human beings you know especially Islam oppress women and Islam doesn't allow women to live as human beings. They are just considered as slaves and sexual objects. But if any Muslim who you know there are many Muslims who actually don't follow the Koran, every words of Koran, they can be moderate.
ES: But this is like defining Christianity or Judaism, according to only the most literal interpretation of either the five books of Moses, the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament when, in fact, a theologian may well argue, and for Islam as well, a theologian may argue: don't read the book literally, one must follow the tradition as it evolves and therefore Christianity isn't exactly what it says in the New Testament, Judaism has changed from a literal interpretation of the Hebrew Bible. And same with Islam and the Koran.
TN: I, there is no, no you know nobody can change the Koran or live or disobey the orders of Allah or Prophet Mohammad and call themselves Muslims. Actually, they are not allowed. Muslims are not allowed but some Muslims don't follow the Koran or the Dar al-Harb and live their life and call themselves Muslims. OK but actually there is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism.
ES: There is no difference? But -
TN: No difference. Islamic fundamentalists practicing Islam correctly.
ES: The Taliban?
TN: Yeah, Taliban are real Muslims.
ES: [sounds like] Wahabiism as practiced in Saudi Arabia?
TN: Are real Muslims.
ES: Real Muslims, as opposed to someone here in Canada -
TN: But some Muslims, of course, you would find many Muslims who believe in equality between men and women. They are not real Muslims even though they claim they're real Muslims -
ES: But maybe they're part of a tradition [unclear] -- it's different, an interpretation that's different.
TN: [sounds like] Right, you can you know how can you interpret positively when it is written in the Koran that men are superior and women are inferior? When it is written in the Koran that women, men are allowed to beat their women? So how could you know you interpret this positively?
ES: But there are people, for example -
TN: Suppose one thing: sun revolves around the earth. How could you interpret that? Actually it does not.
ES: Well, this is, in your book, in your new book, and I we do want to talk about your new book because what's interesting about the new book, [sounds like] Meyebela, which is your memoir of your girlhood in Bengal, in Bengali and what, Bangladesh. But what's interesting is it's such, you've become such an unlikely person, given your roots, you've changed so much from where you came from - where did these thoughts that you had, these ideas that, as you say, that in reading the Koran that you thought: wait a second, this isn't gibing with science, this isn't gibing with my own experience? Where did these first thoughts begin? Right in your girlhood?
TN: Why did I wrote to the?
ES: I'm interested, you become an iconoclast, you become the ideas you have about Islam are very outspoken. But I wonder, given your background, which was quite traditional, when did these thoughts first begin to occur to you? When you were five, six?
TN: Yeah you know it didn't come suddenly in one fine morning. It came slowly you know. When I was reading the Koran, since I was forced to read the Koran like everybody else in my country when I was a child, I had to read the Koran in Arabic but I didn't understand Arabic and nobody in Bengal understand Arabic. The language is Bengali. So I wanted to know what I was reading, the verses of the Koran, because this I don't know the language but I had to read because I was told that Allah would be happy if I read the Koran in Arabic.
ES: Right and your mother was very religious.
TN: Yeah. But I wanted to know the meaning. So when I was 13 or 14 years old, then I found a book, the translation of the Koran and I read. And I was so surprised and you know before that, when I was eight or nine years old, you know I was saying: what Allah wrote I didn't understand and I also said, my mother used to ask me that to pray always. So I was not happy. I didn't like to pray but I had to pray in Arabic so I asked my mother, who said that Allah knows everything, Allah creates the earth, the sun and the moon, everything, animals, humans. So languages also. So Allah doesn't know Bengali? If I pray in Bengali -
ES: Doesn't he understand?
TN: Yeah. So my mother was a little bit embarrassed but that was my question. And also one day my mother told me that if you say anything bad about Allah, your tongue would fall off. So I was very curious you know that I -
ES: No but you weren't just curious and I don't know [unclear] -- but then she said your tongue will fall out and then you said you went home and you mumbled to yourself: Allah is?
TN: Yeah, I went to bathroom so nobody could see me, I locked the bathroom door and I say: Allah is a son of a *****, Allah is a son of a dog, Allah is you know [unclear] --
ES: I'll actually read it: "Allah, you are bad. Allah, you are ugly, you are rotten, you are a crook, you are a son of a *****, you are a pig."
TN: And I was waiting, I was waiting for you know my tongue to fall off. But it didn't. I waited for one minute, two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes. I was afraid and I was thinking: OK, my maybe my tongue would fall out but it did not. And then I realized if I say anything bad about Allah, my tongue would never fall off. So -
ES: But just saying that, just out of interest, how old were you when you were saying that? You were a young girl. You precocious little thing. So you're saying -
TN: I was curious.
ES: You were curious.
TN: Children are curious, you know they want to know, they ask questions.
ES: If you were caught saying this by your mother, what would she have done to you?
ES: If your mother heard you say that?
TN: Oh, she would have been very, very unhappy and angry with me so that I you know I went to bathroom.
ES: And earlier, you were very careful but even saying that now, when I read a sentence like that, what happens when they read this sentence in Bengal? What do they say when they say, when they read that you said those things about Allah now?
TN: This book is banned in Bangladesh.
ES: It's banned because of sentences like that?
TN: Um hmm.
ES: So just what I said to you in your country would get you into serious trouble? This is the fatwa, these are the thing that's banned because of these things?
ES: And you're still writing them?
TN: Yeah, yeah, why not? I'm telling the truth.
ES: You said here, these are, I'm interested in your, in how you fell, your disenchantment with religion - first with Islam and then with religion in general. But you know you read here, there's a passage here where you read in the Koran that the sun revolves around the earth and you say: no it doesn't. And you compare science. But look, I read the Hebrew Bible and it says the story of Adam and Eve and I can read it metaphorically.
ES: It's just a story, it doesn't have to be the truth, it doesn't invalidate the whole religion.
TN: Yeah, you yeah, Koran is kind of fairy tales, it's all religions are kind of fairy tales you know. If they wrote I could say OK, it's a historical document [unclear] -- some time, some men for their own interest created religion and wrote the Koran, wrote the Bible and everything, fine. But why we have to follow? We have to follow everything as written in the Koran now. That's my question. Is out of religious scriptures are out of place, out of time.
ES: Now a fundamental, not even a fundamental, a believer would answer you and say: Taslima, what you have never experienced is a religious experience and so what you say is out of time, it's because you lack faith. So where does faith function into your rational mind?
TN: Faith. Faith you know is faith, blind faith is irrational.
ES: Ah, but many things are irrational in the world. Love is irrational and you don't discredit love.
TN: Yeah but if, you can have faith, you know, he can have faith, she can have faith. I have no problem if you don't want to impose your faith on other people, if you don't want to decide what other people should do, what other people should wear, what other people should eat, how they should live their life - then problem solved you know. You know Islam does it in Islamic countries we still have Islamic laws which decide how everybody should live their life.
ES: What about a place like Turkey?
TN: There is secularism.
ES: There is secularism. So it is possible for a society to function within a Muslim society.
TN: Yeah, of course.
ES: As well and a kind of secularism to co-exist?
TN: Yeah. It does co-exist. If you have secularism, it means you don't have any religious law. It means women would not suffer you know, there would be equality between men and women. There would be justice at least. Men, women are oppressed everywhere, not only by religion, by tradition, by [unclear] -- and everything.
ES: … girls?
TN: Yeah but we don't need any religious laws so secularism of course is possible in Islamic countries. People can be religious but if state is secular, then you know lots of problems would be solved.
ES: But you know as well as I do that the separation between church and state, between religion and the state government, many Muslims would say that it is impossible to do that because Islam is inherently, as well as a religion, it's also a political method.
TN: I know. So this is the problem of Islam, you know you could in other countries you know the Christians, the Buddhists, you know they can separate their, can have separation of church and state. But in Islamic countries, it's impossible because the Koran is complete code of law, you know it's a law so you have to follow. So but it's possible to have secular movement if people through secular education people can have secular education and -
ES: So what would you do? I mean you've said we have to rewrite Koran, rewrite Shari'a -
TN: No, actually is not that actually I didn't say that.
ES: What is the exact quote because this is widely quoted so [unclear] -- rewrite Shari'a, which is Islamic law.
TN: No. I said that we don't need any Shari'a law, we should -
ES: Abandon Shari'a law.
TN: Abandon Shari'a law and the religious scriptures out of place, out of time. We need even from civil code in which women can get equality and justice. That thing I said. But the journalist misunderstood and she wrote that.
ES: In other words, you're not talking about a reformation, you're talking about a whole different social structure.
TN: Of course. You know the reformation it means nothing. You know in Bangladesh, there is reformation of Shari'a law. You know before 1962, if man could just pronounce, just say divorce, divorce, divorce -
ES: If he says it three times, it's the divorce?
TN: Yeah. It's written in the Koran, if men want to divorce their wife, just have to say three times divorce, divorce, divorce. Even it is written in the Koran you don't have to say that. If you think that, already divorce happen. But you know after 19, in 1962 in Bangladesh, this kind of reformation happened that if you say, divorce would not have happen. You have to write down and send to the -
ES: The court.
TN: Not court, just local authority, that's all. Divorce. And so what kind of you know -
ES: Reformations take time. It took time in Europe, it took time in North America, things change, you know women didn't have the right to vote here in Canada till the end of the '20s.
TN: Why should we wait for that? Why should we wait?
ES: It should be instant. Now would you abide by, to get to this state, how do we do it? Would you abide by, I mean what's the process that you would advocate? Would you advocate not waiting, a revolutionary process, a reformation process -
TN: I think so.
ES: A revolution?
TN: Because reformation, you cannot do much reformation, you cannot make 100% sorry -
TN: Change in Islamic countries by reformation of Islamic law -
ES: [unclear] -- are you talking about a violent revolt?
TN: I don't, no, no, I am against violent revolt. But education is very important, secular education it is very important. And of course, the government should not use religion for their own interests. Normally it happens in Bangladesh they use religion for their own interest, for you know temporary gain, they want vote from the ignorant masses so they use religion you know. Otherwise, if they were really aware of the danger of Islam and if they really want to improve the condition of women, or if they really want to do any good for the society, they would not keep religious law.
ES: Let me go back to your childhood because you know when we speak now, your ideas are coherent, you have a, you've been for years living in exile because of the fatwa. But it begins, all these ideas form back in 19, I guess you were born in '62 and this is a fraught time in the Pakistan-India war and tell me what your girlhood was like because this 'meyebela', there wasn't even a concept of girlhood, is there, in Bengal? This is a made-up word. You just made up the word meyebela.
ES: Why? Because the idea of a girlhood doesn't exist?
TN: No. Childhood or boyhood both were used for girlhood -
ES: So there's a word for boyhood?
TN: Yeah. Boyhood is also used for girlhood you know -
ES: So what's the word for boyhood?
TN: [sounds like] Chilavella.
ES: Chillavella. So you choose, chose meyebela. And how?
ES: For a nice girl?
TN: No, sorry, chilla means boy, may is girl.
ES: OK so -
TN: Chillavella, boyhood; mayabela, girlhood. But there is no word -
ES: Has it become popular now that you've used it?
TN: Yeah, they started using that word, this word.
ES: And you needed it because a girl's life is significantly different.
TN: Yeah, significantly different.
ES: In what ways? Explain. When you grew up, was a girl supposed to get an education?
TN: No, not, yeah they were supposed to get education but you know urban society, educated family normally used to send their girls to schools but you know for certain time. When the girls become 15 or 16 years old, they were just forced to marry, you know they are given into marriage normally. I have so many friends of mine, girls, they were forced to get married.
ES: But I always wonder because your father, who in some ways he was, you know he cheated on your mother, he beat you, I mean he was, this is not a significantly great profile of your father.
TN: No, no, no, of course not.
ES: But he does encourage you all the time to get an education.
TN: Yeah. This is quite a contradiction because he was a very cruel man and yeah, even though he encouraged me to continue my study, but I don't think he believed in equality. No, he wanted me to stay at home, you know he did not like me to go outside to enjoy my freedom, never. But -
ES: But when your mother, who was beating you to study the Koran in Arabic, and your father says: no, go your studies, you need an education - it is a contradiction.
TN: Yeah. So my mother was very religious, my father was not. He had a rational, logical mind so I was very attracted. I liked my mother, my father even though he, I was beaten by him but I liked him because of his rational, logical mind.
ES: And yet your mother called him a kefir.
ES: Kafir which is a disbeliever - And she became very religious.
TN: She became very religious, actually she was not very religious before you know but she was oppressed -
ES: She was oppressed, she wanted an education, didn't she?
TN: She wanted an education but she was not allowed to continue her study. She was given into marriage and afterwards you know she couldn't continue her study and but afterwards when my father had many other women and my mother was treated like a slave, then my mother wanted peace, some peace.
TN: You know religion is for the weak, for vulnerable, for stupid people or, you know, devastated people.
ES: You say that but there's all sorts of educated, strong, powerful people that are -
TN: … strong, not mentally strong.
ES: Oh come now, there are many -
TN: …mentally weak so they go to religion. Why?
ES: This is [unclear] -- Taslima, you're one to make such great generalizations and you -
I think so yeah, I love to make -
ES: - people with absolutely dynamic minds that are religious people that have had religious experiences.
TN: No, they are mentally weak, somewhere they're weak so that they believe in religion. How could you believe religion? I don't understand -
ES: -- and Freud at the turnoff the century that said it's just, it is for this, it's a psychological condition, it's a need. But people say -
TN: When you need something, something irrational, something stupid, something nonsense thing, when do you need? When you are weak. When you you know -
ES: Taslima, would you invalidate people who have said, and I know these people, I've spoken, I have had a God connection, I have felt something that is unable, that I cannot articulate and it is a God connection, it is a transcendent moment. Are you saying, and that's why I believe, and would you look at me -
TN: Do you believe?
ES: Yes, I would believe, I believe in something which transcends, yes, because of I think the best description I've heard is that there's a connectedness to that which transcends -
TN: [sounds like] What you need in a religion, you don't -
ES: You've never had a transcendent moment?
TN: No, no. We don't need any religion. Religion is for the weak people, for mentally weak people, maybe physically they are not weak but mentally weak. Otherwise, why they need religion?
ES: The Dalai Lama?
TN: Of course, he's weak, mentally weak. He believes in religion and there's so many rituals, there's no sense what Dalai Lama is doing, he's doing it.
ES: And the Archbishop of Canterbury?
TN: Of course, of course.
ES: Mentally weak.
TN: Mentally weak and it's politics also, politics - religion is kind of politics men use.
ES: St. Francis of Assisi?
TN: Of course. They use religion you know they use religion to politically.
ES: Gandhi? Martin Luther King? I ask -
TN: I appreciate their work, what Gandhi did, what Martin Luther King did. But God was not important. They believed in God, that is not important. What they did, what they did for humanity, for you know lessen the suffering of the people, that is important. Why we respect Martin Luther King? Because he believed in God or because what he did for the rights for the blacks?
ES: But Taslima, the [unclear] -- what if they said he couldn't do that if he did not believe?
TN: No, no, of course there are many [sounds like] ethics people did so many good things for the people, for -
ES: - some religions.
TN: Do you believe God created this whole universe in six days?
ES: Of course I don't, no, but this question is there's nothing to invalidate the way I would read scripture in the sense that I still read it as a way towards a God connection, but not as a literal document. That's my personal belief.
TN: So you believe religious scriptures?
ES: I believe that there are scriptures that are so imbued with historical meaning that they give us a path, they chart a path where others have gone that we can follow and continue to chart in our own way, absolutely. I see it as a map, a map towards meaning.
TN: What I think, I told you before that religion, all religions are created by men for their own interest. So whoever from Muslim country whoever, who you know are Muslims try to interpret positively or say that: OK, here we find good thing. But I told you that it's impossible. How could you change the verse where it's written that men are allowed to beat women? And you know men can have four wives, they can divorce their wife any time they want, they can beat women you know and afterwards, just if they pray to God, they would go to heaven and get they would get 72 virgins.
ES: But Taslima -
TN: Women, what is it? Nothing.
ES: But Taslima, there isn't there a way and religion develops away from a literal reading of the so-called sacred books into a tradition and a culture that evolves, the way Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism has evolved into many, many manifestations. So somebody reads it literally and they build a community that way and someone - look at Christianity. [unclear] -- not all countries look like Calvin's version of Geneva, they don't. There's been a reformation and a change and it hasn't invalidated the whole religion.
TN: But why did it need, why they didn't just go for reformation and reformation? Why did you need secularization?
ES: In other words, why [unclear] -- God at all? Why, let me ask you: what role does God play [unclear] -
TN: No, nothing. God is just for bloodshed, for you know for humiliation you know for the inequalities. God has all the negative effect on people.
ES: But God has also, there is a strong case that way but there's another strong case to say that God has built institutions, through the inspiration of God we've had beautiful art, beautiful poetry, we saved lives of people, there's all -
TN: Do you want to give credit to God or to people who have created all those?
ES: Ah, but see, there is -
TN: Tell me.
ES: It's a covenant between a belief that it's a symbiotic -
TN: - Imagination of people, of human being, they created art, they created literature, wonderful literature, wonderful art, wonderful paintings we get. But is I don't -
ES: When you fall in love with someone, someone says: well, can you touch love, can you define love, is it a rational thing? And they say: no, it's a feeling I get but it's as true as this. How do you, and someone says: my faith is the same as that, I can't define it for you but it's as true as this. How is faith and love different? How are they different?
TN: Oh, no, no, of course there is a difference because you know if love is a good feeling, OK if you have a good feeling because you have a faith, OK, you live with your good feeling. But I told you, why you should impose that other people also should have the faith that you have? In Islam, it is happening. If I don't have faith, they want to kill me, the Muslims, the fundamentalists you know.
ES: Have there been Muslim communities, by the way, that have stood up for you? Have there been leaders -
TN: Yeah, secular people of course they supported me. Whenever you make laws out of your faith, when you decide for other people, when you don't believe in the plurality of thought, when you don't believe in individualism, group loyalty is the main thing - then the problem starts, you know then we cannot tolerate that -
ES: In the name of religion, there's been terrible things done but in the name of nationalism there's been just as bad things. So would you say nationalism and religion are both - people identify with a nation, with a religion. Are both things results of what you would characterize as the weak mind, the inferior mind? Both these constructs?
TN: But when you say in the name of religion, as if that religion doesn't do all those things but religion, the name of religion is used, but is not that people who are doing bad things in the name of religion do want to say that actually religion is very good thing. The people who are using religion you know oppressing people in the name of religion, they are bad. Actually, what I'm trying to say that religion itself is very oppressive, oppressive to women -
ES: - by nature religion, not so - so your critique is not simply of a form of Islam, your critique is of religion in general inevitably becomes a form of oppression?
TN: Yes, of course, of course religion is oppressive to women. It is, sorry, what did you say?
ES: Inevitably leads to a form of -
TN: Inevitably leads to form of oppression.
ES: Let me ask you something. You've written a memoir so it behooves me to wonder, maybe these ideas that you have are born out of some terrible childhood experiences and you've written about them. For example, you were raped by your uncle, one uncle at the age of five, you were raped by another uncle at the age of seven. Now the hatred or the anger you feel towards these men, but are they representative of this culture? Is this, have you transferred that anger towards a whole -
TN: My uncles tried to rape me, it had nothing to do with Islam. It's a tradition, it's a male-dominated society that always male relatives try to rape the girls because girls are considered weak, inferior and boys are treated very good and -
ES: It was common for -
TN: -- tradition, it's a tradition, male-dominated societies' tradition, it's a strong patriarchal society.
ES: Yes, I know about the patriarchal society but are you saying that this, your experience of being raped at five, or he tries to rape you at five and at seven, when he does - another, this is common -
TN: This is common everywhere. I think that here also there are many, many, many women -
ES: Yes -
TN: … in fact are you know raped by -
ES: But you're saying this is more endemic there, this was not an anomaly, this was not something, this was something quite common
TN: This happen but you know but no girls or women talk about this. So I talked about this, I said -
ES: When was the first time you told someone that your uncle had raped you?
TN: I never told anybody, I never told anybody you know because in my book, I wrote that, that it was shame, shame you know [unclear] -- shame for me you know, I felt ashamed. And so I didn't talk about when I was a child of course. I wanted to tell my mother but I was afraid that my mother would beat me.
ES: Which she did regularly.
TN: She did but I thought that oh she would beat me to death because I thought that it was my fault. Anyway so but I never told anybody about my, about what you know about what my uncles did to me.
ES: As you write here, suddenly at the age of seven, I was filled with a new awareness. Whatever happened, and this is when your uncle Amman raped you, whatever happened was shameful, it would not be right to talk about it, it would have to be kept a secret. At what age did you reveal that this had happened? Or was it the first time in this book?
TN: No, I remembered, I never forgot.
ES: But when did you tell people about it?
TN: I didn't tell people. It was the first time in the book.
ES: First time you told people [unclear] -- and so has your family seen this book?
TN: Yeah but even it is banned in Bangladesh but my father and my other family members read the book.
ES: Is this uncle still alive?
TN: Yeah, I think so.
ES: And the other uncle?
TN: Yeah, he's, yeah they're alive.
ES: And so has -
TN: I don't know their reaction.
ES: And did anyone of your family talk to you about this?
ES: Has anyone, so have you ever had -
TN: Because it's not available in Bangladesh -
ES: So how do you come to terms -
TN: I told the truth because it's not only my story, it happened, it's the story of the of millions of girls so I didn't care what people would say to me, what people would say to my family members you know. I didn't care, why should I? It's the truth and it's happening to the girls and girls should talk about this, they shouldn't feel ashamed you know. So that I wrote the book to give strength to millions of women so that they can have strength to talk, to revolt, to protest against all these bad things.
ES: Have you heard from other women who now have had similar experiences?
TN: You know when I wrote the book, after the book was published, a lot of women told me it happened in their life too.
ES: Not only that shock but later in the book, you have your the experience with men is so difficult that you have an experience with a woman and I wasn't, and you by the way, in this book, the rape and the experience with a woman - and I think it was a sexual experience, although you were quite young - was it?
TN: Umm sexual experience? Yeah I was quite young but I loved to do that, to touch her breasts -
ES: Yeah, "my hands roaming all over her body, you, I slipped into [sounds like] Moni's bed, my hands roaming all over her body. I removed her clothes, I felt her breasts, no one had touched her beautiful breasts, I kissed them, fondled them" - so was this, this was your first loving experience?
TN: Yeah, first. But that's all. I didn't go far. That's all and I enjoyed that.
ES: But how does your culture deal with that, which would be in many this is homosexuality, so how does the, is there -
TN: I don't think that I did get any sexual orgasm, just I [sounds like] stroked her breasts and I enjoyed that and you know it is very, very common in our country that two girls sleep together you know -
ES: And are intimate with each other?
TN: Yeah, I mean sleep together, you know brothers or uncles or you know so is very common.
ES: So you're saying so you sleep together so it would be common to have experiences like that, where you're touching each other but it's not necessarily a sexual experience, it's an intimate experience?
TN: Intimate experience.
ES: And what, how did that differ, was that your first physical sensation of intimacy with a woman?
TN: Yeah, with anybody, first. But you know it's so common, nobody, if I could sleep in a boys, sorry, if I could sleep with any boy, that would be very, very bad and but if I could sleep with other girls, nobody would mind because it's so [unclear] -- so common. So -
ES: So did these experiences harden you? I mean you're five when your uncle does this, you're seven when another uncle rapes you. So what happens? I mean I read an article that you once wrote that said: I was a dis, I've always been a disobedient person. Are these the formative experiences that created this sense that you were outside this culture, that you were going to resist?
TN: No, actually those were not - some people you know always remember some bad experience and because of that, they become you know angry and they fight against something. But it didn't happen to me.16:10:00 APPROX. I was not fighting the patriarchal system or the religious system because that once upon a time I was raped by my uncles, no -
ES: There's not a cause and effect?
TN: No, no. Because I saw other women, other women are oppressed, I was oppressed as a girl and because girls are inferior, they are considered inferior. I was not allowed to go out, I was not allowed to do whatever I wanted to do. But my brothers were allowed to do, they were treated very good. I was just allowed to play with my dolls and stay at home and do the household chores and you know -
ES: But you still got an education.
TN: But I still got education but I wanted to go out. I wanted to run, I wanted to go to -
ES: And you saw your mother get oppressed by -
TN: My mother was you know just my mother was for was you know for cooking, for cleaning -
ES: I mean your house was Peyton Place, I mean people were sleeping with, your mother catches your father in bed with other women, your - there was wars going on so you'd see, your childhood was dramatic in every sense of the word. I don't mean to romanticize it, it was difficult. But -
TN: At the same time, you know girls are not allowed to fall in love but your father can sleep with you're the maids you know. Men are allowed to do anything, men are allowed to fall in love, men are allowed to sleep with women, any women outside marriage, men are allowed to have sex with -
ES: - have four wives.
TN: Have four wives. They can have hundreds of a hundred mistress, no problem.
ES: Still to this day?
TN: Yeah, no problem. You know in Koran, it allows men to have not only four wives, they can have with the female slaves, they can have sex with the captive women you know. So -
ES: And you're, by the way your, the help around the house, they seem like slaves. In your family house, you had help but they really were almost slaves. They couldn't eat with the family, I mean it was a funny -
TN: With the maids?
ES: Yeah, the maids.
TN: Yeah, they are treated like slaves.
ES: So were you furious growing up, were you angry, [unclear] -- how does it first, how did it first manifest itself, as anger?
TN: The first curiosity and then I wanted to know and then I thought, I thought a lot you know when servants were treated as slaves you know, they were beaten, they didn't have any time for themself, so you know it was usual, it's so normal that I was growing up with the system. So one day I ask question, you know why is this? Why they suffer so much? And I thought and I thought and I thought so I didn't find any good answer.
ES: When did you finally renounce Islam?
ES: Renounce, when did you finally decide that you were an atheist, that you don't believe? Was there a moment?
TN: Uh, you know, sorry. I told you that I was always interested to know what's written in the Koran.
ES: And you studied it. Doesn't make sense to you. But was there a moment when you, did you ever announce: I no longer believe?
TN: When I was young, I was not daring to say that but I asked a lot of questions to my mother and also I said: why is that, it's not good, it's inequality, why men would get 72 virgins in heaven and women would not get any? Sometimes I told my mother: why you are reading the Koran and praying so much? You would not get anything, you'd get the same old husband who is oppressing you on this earth, you'd get the same one in the heaven. Why do you want to go to heaven? That my father he had so many women here on this earth, he has so many mistresses and he would get 72 virgins and you'd get only your old husband, nothing else. So why do we pray for?
ES: So that's it?
TN: Yeah and she couldn't answer me. When I read the Koran means when I read the Bengali translation and I found that the injustices and inequalities. Then I asked my, then I stopped praying. I don't, I didn't pray anymore but I asked a lot of questions to my mother and I find still I'm so I get really surprised when women believe in religion, when women believe in Islam.
ES: So when you, and I remember there's a moment here with your mother where your mother tries to make you wear a burka. I remember that in the book -
TN: Yeah, I didn't wear burka -
ES: o, I would imagine you wouldn't but when you see women nowadays wear a burka by choice, there's women here that wear burkas -
TN: They are stupid people, they don't know that burka is a sign of oppression. Why they don't ask question that why they have to wear burka, what is the reason?
ES: What if they say to you: we are different than men but not necessarily worse? We simply have different rules and different doesn't mean worse, doesn't mean inferior.
TN: Women? OK they are different but why they have to wear burka?
ES: Men have to wear certain things in certain religions. Women have to wear certain -
TN: Why they have to hide? There is a reason you know, why, when burka in Arab there was no burka system. You know when the burka system started?
ES: Tell me.
TN: When the Prophet Mohammad married 13 women, Isha, he married Isha when Isha was six years old, it's child abuse, the Prophet Mohammad is a child abuser you know, he married a girl who was six years old and he started living with Isha, or having sex with Isha, when Isha was nine years old. Isha was still playing with dolls you know. Anyway, when Isha became older, she was actually she was very beautiful and the friends of Mohammad were attracted to Isha, they liked Isha. So but Mohammad couldn't tolerate this, he was very jealous so you know he created the verses as if God said to him that: hey, the friends of Mohammad don't go to the prophet's house and don't look at his wives because prophet doesn't like it. Prophet cannot tell you because he is shy so I, Allah, am telling you and don't ask anything to his wives. Then they have to go behind the curtain, then prophet made the law that all his wives have to wear burkas, something like they have to use veil and then he said that all the Muslim women have to wear this because you know he introduced that for Muslim women only because he was jealous because Isha was very beautiful and men were looking at her. You know also he was so jealous that he you know prohibited men to marry his widows after he died even, even though widow marriage is legal in under in Islam.
ES: So you're saying that the Koran was written very much around Mohammad, the Prophet Mohammad's -
TN: Of course, for his own interest, yeah he is very selfish, he wrote you know Isha, the prophet's wife, told Mohammad once that: oh whenever you need something, your God comes and satisfies you because one day Prophet Mohammad wanted to marry his daughter-in-law, his son's wife. And then because he saw his daughter-in-law and he was attracted to her, next day the you know Koranic verse appeared that as if Allah said that: OK now Mohammad you should marry your daughter-in-law. So that he said: look, I got God's order that I have to marry now my daughter-in-law. His son's name was Jieed and his daughter-in-law was Jinob so he asked his son to divorce his wife so that he can marry -
ES: And he did.
TN: And he did.
ES: Now, Taslima -
TN: Of course, he said: oh he was not my real son, he was adopted son so is not real, he is anyway adopted so people can marry, men are allowed to marry their adopted sons' wife. But actually you know it was to justify his marriage what he did, some [sounds like] inhuman things he did, he prohibited adoption. Adopted sons are not allowed to get any property inheritance.
ES: No inheritance for adopted sons because -
TN: Not even adoption, you know you cannot adopt, if you are a Muslim you cannot adopt a son or daughter.
ES: Taslima -
TN: Can you imagine [unclear] --
ES: There is a fatwa now against you, a death threat. What is the price on your head now?
TN: Five thousand dollar but you know dollar, money is not important. People would kill me because of religious sentiment, because it is their religious duty to kill me, they would go to heaven.
ES: Yeah, they would and you have to live in hiding because of this and yet here you are and you're saying things like: Mohammad was a child abuser, you've said that Mohammad was self-interested, you said that Mohammad, that people that follow religion are stupid, you have said they're weak, that they're chauvinist, that their writings are not from God, it's clear that they're to serve Mohammad's interest. Are you inciting more anger? I mean is there any -
TN: It's true. If these people are really clever, if these people really think, they would understand these things.
ES: How do you know, when we say in the West, when and we've had this with the Taliban, people said it's impossible for us to judge another culture, we have to respect cultural differences.
TN: This is the problem. This is the problem. In the name of culture, women are oppressed, women are tortured and you respect the culture? Should you respect female genital mutilation because it happens in the name of culture? Should you -
ES: And we do, we see women in burkas, they say: we wear it by choice. What should we do?
TN: Because -
ES: What should we do?
TN: … thought for centuries that they have to accept this system -
ES: What should we do, should we denounce that system? Should we say -
TN: Of course, of course -
ES: … just because it's different from our culture?
TN: You know I love my culture, my culture is Bengali culture and my language, my music, Bengali music, Bengali dance, Bengali food, wonderful, look at Bengali dress it's wonderful, I love this. But I don't call religion as my culture because religion was is for oppression, it is to oppress women -
ES: But what should we do then? You're telling people -
TN: … because bombing -
ES: But what about the Taliban?
TN: … is not the solution. Bombing is not the solution.
ES: Even though the Taliban -
TN: Talibans are growing because you know -
ES: So you think it was the wrong thing to do to bomb the Taliban?
TN: I think so because -
ES: But the women I mean Sima Samar, who we've talked about on our show who's also a doctor like you, she says: look, finally we can go back to Afghanistan and have our culture back because the Taliban are gone. And now you would say that was the wrong thing to do.
TN: --culture back? Still women wearing burka -
ES: Some are, some aren't. But what I mean is what action ought we take -
TN: - The tradition, this long, long, long tradition patriarchal tradition in Afghanistan. So is not just to bomb and kill the Taliban - Women can't get equality or freedom or rights.
ES: But how does it change? How -
TN: Slowly through education, secular education and secularization of Islamic countries is needed or [unclear] -- necessary.
ES: Is it always education? Remember I mean the classic case in the West is Nazi Germany, the highly educated population and they succumbed to fascism. Is it always education -
TN: -- doesn't mean always academic education you know I have seen so many fundamentalists who have academic education but education, secular education that you have to you know which gives you thought you know -
ES: …secular education you had communism under Stalin. What I'm saying is how do you know? We've had secular education and no God, you get Stalin, you get a fundamentalist Islamic -
TN: Religion and democracy, religion and freedom of expression, religion and human rights, religion and women's rights never, never can co-exist.
ES: So you're and the common factor there for you is always religion?
TN: Because it is, it is the reality because it cannot co-exist so in the western countries, it needed when the churches started you know did all this burned women at stake and you know nobody could say against religion, nobody had freedom of expression, the what you needed? You needed a separation of church and state -
ES: But even the separation of church and state didn't always help. We had separation of church and state for years before women got - I guess what I'm saying is how are we in the West here to judge other cultures where women wear burkas and that don't necessarily comply by our definition of fundamental human rights or are we to simply judge them beyond cultural relativism and simply say it's wrong?
TN: You know this is the problem always I find, you know who are the most biggest enemy of the people in Islamic countries? They are the apologists of Islam -
ES: The apologists of - they're the enemies?
TN: They are the main enemies because in the western countries, westerners, the so-called liberal western people who think that the West is against Islam, then they have sympathy for Islam. They say: OK, this is their culture, they should have right to, they should have the right to live in their culture or practice their culture or their religion. By this way actually you destroy the possibility of you know secularize Islamic countries. You support the fundamentalists [unclear] -- fundamentalists by supporting Islam -
ES: It's a complicated business because -
TN: This is very, very easy because then you know when you say that it's your culture, what about, you know -
ES: I respect you, it's your culture, I respect diversity -
TN: Why should you?
ES: And you're saying those are the enemies.
TN: This is enemies [unclear] -- because you know you should support, if you really, really want any good for the Islamic countries, people of Islamic countries, you should support the secular movement in those countries.
ES: So when I say I don't support these guys - one more, hold on. I think it's so important because this is the
TN: … when I say that morality -
ES: Hold on, hold on.
TN: But we are talking about something, I -
ES: Leave it to me, you can't just do it all yourself. First, before you tell me about morality, I want to, this is important because in the West and all over, there's a very de rigueur idea now called the clash of civilizations between the West, Christian culture, western culture and Judao-Christian culture versus Islamic culture. Now many people have said this is not happening but a lot of liberals say: look, it's fundamentalist Islamic people, they're the problem, Wahabis, Islamists, it's a new word, but not Islam. Islam is a peace-loving religion. This is what I think, this is what I would say is a helpful distinction. You think that position makes me the enemy, this is bad.
TN: Yeah you are the enemy because Islamic countries need secularization. Islam, if we respect Islam, what Islam would give to us, what Islam would give to the people who are living in Islamic countries - nothing. Injustices, inequalities you know no freedom of expression, no human rights, no democracy, nothing. Why should you respect Islam because it is some people's culture? By this way, you respect people? If you have any sympathy for those people who are Muslim, you should support the secular movement there.
ES: OK but I want to make a distinction, Taslima. Not don't support a Muslim government but support, but it's still OK to be Islamic as long as you don't mix church and state, state religion? It's still OK then in your mind to respect Islamic culture?
TN: Why should you respect Islamic culture when it is oppressive to women, when it doesn't give any freedom to people to talk, to have different ideas -
ES: But there are secular Muslim societies. What about my friends who are Muslim?
TN: Then they're secular human beings. If they call themselves Muslim, it means they have to follow the order of God -
ES: So you don't think they're really Muslim, they're just -
TN: They're not really Muslim, they're not real Muslims. Real Muslims are Talibans, real Muslims are the fundamentalists.
ES: What about would you say the same for a Christian, a Christian that doesn't believe that God created the earth in seven days -
TN: They are not real Christians.
ES: They're not real Christians. So only a Christian, what we would call a Christian fundamentalist is a real Christian? That's what you would say?
TN: But in Islam it is if you have to, you cannot call yourself a Muslim if you don't believe all the words of God. Allah said that in the Koran. You have to believe every word, you cannot say: OK, in the Koran I believe this part, I don't believe this part. You are not allowed as a Muslim -
ES: But can't you -
TN: As a Muslim, you are not allowed to -
ES: Let me ask you another question since you're so hard on religion. It's a topic you want to discuss, which is morality. Religion has played a part, a role and a significant role in establishing a moral framework by which we live: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt respect thy mother, the Ten Commandments as an example. The Beatitudes: blessed are the weak for they shall, the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
TN: Is not that actually the biggest tragedy of the of human world, sorry, the biggest tragedy of humankind is that morality was hijacked by religion.
ES: Morality was hijacked by religion?
TN: Yeah it was hijacked by religion. Before religion, long, long time ago in ancient India or in ancient China, to say that don't do anything to other people what you don't want to be do, done to you, yeah. So that's morality and that was practiced long, long, long any religion -
ES: But this is Emmanuel Kant, the kind of moral imperatives, right? These are, yes there are ethics though are different. An ethical life you can exist outside of a religious framework but are you totally discounting the idea of a spiritual connection? Because Taslima, for millions, for thousands of years, millions of people have had a spiritual connection. Some have called it God, some have called it Allah, some have called it Jesus, some have called it -
TN: But there is no God, there is no God anywhere.
ES: How can you say - Maybe not for you -
TN: There is no God.
ES: But for you, maybe not but what about for someone else?
TN: There is still just blind faith, just blind belief. There is no God. We don't need any God. There is no God.
ES: - just the doctor? There are some people that say there are miracles.
TN: Miracles? What?
ES: Miracles. Some -
TN: You know those were proved wrong, [unclear] -- miracles.
ES: Do you believe, is there a separation for you between what's sacred and what's profane? Is there any separation? Have you ever had a feeling, a religious feeling or a feeling of transcendence? A feeling of what they call Carlos Castaneda connectedness, oneness?
TN: No I didn't have that feeling. I think I've never had.
ES: When you die, what happens? What happens when you die?
TN: Finished. When I die, it's finished, it's over. We have only one life, it's very -
ES: There's no soul?
TN: There's no soul.
ES: What connects human beings together, just the fact that, are we animals?
TN: A rational animal.
ES: We're just the rational animal?
TN: Um hmm.
ES: Rationality is the only thing that -
TN: But some people are irrational though but we are kind of animals of course -
ES: But how do you factor in, again I come back to this. So much [unclear] -- and you feel a closeness to them that is irrational. We do irrational things all the time.
TN: Yeah, I do. Sometimes I like to just you know go to the mountain even though it is not necessary to go or to just, sorry, it's maybe not irrational things but yes, sometimes we do irrational things.
ES: Or we meditate. What about spiritual, our spiritual leaders who meditate and who have insight into our soul?
TN: These are just nothing.
ES: These are word
TN: Zero. About irrational blind faith, I want to say and also that about western Islam what you were saying. You know some people believe that even though Islamic countries the fundamentalist and the liberal western intellectuals say all they believe that there is a fight between the West and Islam. There's a conflict between the West and Islam. But I don't believe it. I believe, strongly believe that there is no fight between the West and Islam, no fight between Christianity and Islam. Actually, there is a conflict in whole world, there is a conflict.
ES: What is the conflict?
TN: This conflict is between irrational blind faith and rational logical mind. The conflict is between innovation and tradition, between the future and the past, between modernism and anti-modernism, between those who value freedom and those who do not.
ES: And God and spirituality do not belong in one camp?
TN: No, not at all.
ES: Even if they can be a force for good?
TN: For good? It harms people, it kills people. Because of religion, my books are banned, because of religion, I am in exile, because of religion -
ES: Bad things happen for all sorts of reasons. They happen because of nationalism, they happen because of fratricide, they -
TN: I'm not supporting nationalism, I'm not supporting fascism, I'm against all those. And because I came from Islamic country and I see, I saw how religion oppress women, how religion you know -
ES: Oppresses the poor.
TN: Yeah, poor and how it prescribes inequalities you know. Religion is a tool of patriarchy so that I talk about religion. And because of religion -
ES: You're fearless now, by the way. I mean 300 Bengalis have marched against you, 300,000 Bengalis have marched against you.
TN: Um hmm, Muslims.
ES: Muslims. They have, there's been death threats but you're fearless still?
ES: You're fearless.
TN: So that -
ES: You live in exile, you live in hiding.
TN: Not in hiding but in exile yeah.
ES: Do you have a family?
ES: Do you live alone? I mean -
ES: does your -
TN: You know I cannot [unclear] --
ES: Does your philosophy allow you to have a family life, things to protect? Or are you just alone right now with your ideas?
TN: Yeah I have many friends and you know I had to leave everything, my country, my family, my friends, everything, it's all because of religion.
ES: Any regrets?
ES: No regret?
TN: No regret. I have no, I don't regret because I have told the truth.
ES: Do you think Salman Rushdie has backed off from his original critique of Islam?
ES: Has Salman Rushdie backed off, softened his critique?
TN: Umm against Islam? Now? I don't think so. Once he apologized -
ES: Yes and he apologized for apologizing. It's a fight. Do you think this fatwa will ever be taken off your head?
TN: No, no.
ES: You expect to live in exile forever?
TN: Huh? Yeah.
TN: No, no, I'd like to go, sorry. I'd like to go back to my country, I love to live there but -
ES: Do you think you will ever go back?
TN: [unclear] -- the future because I'm not allowed to go there. My the Bangladesh government won't renew my passport and sent note to me, the door is closed for me.
ES: Taslima, you have wished for a secular world but Islam is a growing religion. It is the fastest growing religion in the world.
TN: That's a big danger. So that is a big, big danger. We have to be aware of that danger of -
ES: What should we do?
TN: We should fight the fundamentalists but not by bombing, of course, by education, by secularization of Islam countries.
ES: By secularization and that form would do what? Trade? How would we do it? Trading?
TN: You cannot do from outside. It has to be done within the country.
ES: By supporting organizations, secular organizations within the country, that's the way to do it?
TN: Of course. Yeah.
ES: Taslima, it's a pleasure to speak with you, it is.
TN: Thank you very much.
ES: It was really -
TN: Thank you.
ES: You are unbelievably brave. You have not held back at all, have you?
END OF INTERVIEW
I doubt Taslima Nasrin a Bangladeshi. Her first book was against bangladeshi muslim attacking hindus even though things starts from the other side of the border.
Her father having sex with maid servant is no way a muslim character. It happens all over the world. Does she not read how church abuses those kids. Heared similiar story from another girl. She never bashed Islam for her father's action. She is moreover a hizabi.
She potrays her mother being very religious. So why does she hate Islam? If her father potrays its bad , her mother doesn't. Does it mean she herself disragrds her mother belief just beacuse she a woman?
Her books "amar meyebela" translated as My Bengali Child hood. So her sole intention is to attack Bengali muslim.
In her book "Punjabis coming" does show he low level mentality she got. Punjabis like those in no way potrays muslims. As they are converted from sikhsim and hindus same as the bengali muslim one such Taslima Nasrin who continuously derogates muslims. So she should not be worried for her Islamic identity as compared to them.Rather say "militray coming". It is very musch calcatian phrase"Punjabis coming". Armies are never civilian's friend.
Its so digusting to write even, about her. Why cant she potray it as socio-economic prob? After all she is telling around her personal life to whole world for the money.
look bruv leave these sorts ov fitnaah to one side..
get rid ov the angry part ov the name as it is a quality ov ibliss himself n make dua for the ummah ov Muhammad Salallahu alai hi wa sallam...
Once upon a time there lived an object called peace where babies due to lak ov food did not become deceased...how do we get bak to dis settin free turtle doves...how do we get bak to dis the human race MUSLIM love...
I've heard a lot of women will go to hell cuz they talk toooooooooooooooooooooo much and spread gossip, but I dont think I've heard sooooooooooooooooo much bull**** as I've just read from this Taslima women.
She obv doesnt know Islam and thinks she does.
Nobody's Perfect , not even Me , but especially YOU!!!
Freedom of Speech
I dunno, I think Nasreen deals with controversial subjects like woman's rights that Bangali's don't like to talk about.
Better we talk about these subjects than think they don't exist.
'Victory forgives all and defeat nothing'.
but there is only soooo much u can say before u enter the realms ov kufr n shirk major bruv....
Once upon a time there lived an object called peace where babies due to lak ov food did not become deceased...how do we get bak to dis settin free turtle doves...how do we get bak to dis the human race MUSLIM love...
|Display Modes||Rate This Thread|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:11.